Welcome to Cove

The Covian army is just that; an army.  It's not a rabble, it's a disciplined fighting force.  The two squads, the Grenadiers and the Scouts are meant to be the cream of the army. 

Instead, there's far too much clowning about.  There's relaxing off-duty, and there is taking it too far.  From now on, soldiers acting up can expect to be disciplined.  That can include demotion for repeated offenses. 

Guildchat.  Cease the babble.  And when asked to cease, please don't apologise in guildchat.  Abusing guildchat can and will involve repercussions for your character.  Repeated abuse can lead to guild dismissal.


Thank you.

I think more clarity is needed with this.

What would be considered normal?
What would be taking it too far?

I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought this when reading the above.

If that's true, i'm handin in my badge.

There is such a thing as taking it too far with sloppiness and such, yes. But also taking it too far with discipline aswell surely?

Ultimately, that's up to the senior ranks to decide.  Relaxing and blowing off steam in the tavern is one thing.  But when an officer or higher-ranking Guardsman issues orders then these should be obeyed or there will be IC consequences.  Juniors and above should realise they are setting an example to the Recruits and Watchmen.  If they see Juniors/Regulars/Seniors being insubordinate to officers then they'll be insubordinate.  

This isn't just in general RP.  Guards in the line-ups chatting away and ignoring the Guard/officer in charge.  There have been hunts where people just run off and ignore instructions.  

Nobody is trying to steal your fun.  But it's a militaristic setting.  Those above Watchman and those in the specialist squads such as the Grenadiers and Scouts should be aware that they are expected to set an example and live up to the high standards of the guild.

If you feel victimised either IC or OOC then take it up with a higher rank.  Running away just makes it look even worse.  Frankly, the complaints I'm seeing are to do with too little discipline, with the supposed role models acting like out of control children. 

It's your method of delivery i disagree with. We don't all have to agree with your reasoning.

           I would have to agree with Raven. Personally I think there is a better way to go about it. I know I am not command and this is my personal opinion. Address the issue on the forum, let people know we all need to try to shape up the guild. A simple reminder that the guild rules are going to start to be enforced more would have been sufficient. (IMPO). I feel as if this is being forced down our throat before even being addressed. A lot of us had no idea anyone was having an issue with it.

          I was shocked and appalled at the discipline Keane received last night in the barracks. I'm not saying he didn't have it coming. But to what extreme do we allow our characters to get. Power emoting burns, potentially scaring burns, with out OOC discussion? The guild is now forced to go from one extreme to another. We just need to be all on the same page.

          In closing I understand that we need discipline. I am not saying this isn't good. It's how you go about it. We are practically a family with the amount of game time we spend with each other lets start acting like it. Communicate better. Thank you for your time.

I am in a very difficult position of agreeing with everyone here.. Which sounds like iI am fence sitting but that is not the case.. I can just see both sides opinion.

Discipline:

I agree that, as a military setting, discipline is key.. When orders are stated they should be followed.. Failure to do so will lead to consequences. I myself am guilty of fooling around in certain situations.. Though when an order is given I follow and drop what I am doing...

Fun:

The guild is about fun. Yes the military setting is one we have CHOSEN and therefore must follow the rules that come with this. And of course, you can have fun instilling discipline and purposefully flirting with subordinance, and of course you must take the full wrath of consequences as long as they are justified and OKd by you..

We must remember to have fun and respect other peoples characters, regardless of rank.. Always think of the real person at the other end of the on screen avatar.

Stumbling across this post which makes me wonder a few points, to begin with; as far as I am concerned which the Guild description will back me up on this is; we are "Roleplaying the townfolks of Cove". Let it be the army wing, religious wing or simply the civilian wing. The general focus of it is the Covian Army wing therefor general of the rules are made and enforced accordingly - or at least that's what I am understanding from the way it is being addressed to and emphasized by few people, that it is strictly military based. Which in my opinion brings down the confusion that : Is this a REAL military organization or is this a game that people roleplay being members of a military organization ?

Please don't take my words wrong in here, I am not against having any rules or enforcing them. If you don't have any rules which leaves with you no standards. Without any standards you just end up having medicore or worse environment. However you can not have rules that do not apply to certain people and expect the rest to follow it. If there is a rule then it applies to everyone, regardless of rank, who they are and their veteranship. Otherwise the rules will be questioned.  And the most important point is, as Jenifer stated above; this is a game; at the end of the day everyone is as equally important as the other one.

The fact this was posted on the OOC boards and not the IC boards means you are targetting players and not their characters and telling people how you want them to roleplay their characters.

Myself, Buttons and t'Keres have always played our characters this way and it's not for anyone to say how we do play them, and we gained through the ranks acting in this manner, by having ..fun. We also know when it's not the time for foolery in hunts, parades, line ups and other events. When we're idle and off-duty we are allowed to act how we want and not be threatened with demotion because we're not all hard-faced drilled soldiers 100% of the time.

If you want to play a character in game that's only interested in playing a hard-nut, who doesn't laugh, and is only interested in upholding this strict persona then you do that. If  you want to make a character that's rude and is always in the mind for creating conflicts and acts power hungry then it's likely other players won't go your way. 

If you try and throttle other peoples creativity, you'll create unhappy members who will most probably dull down their playing time. I play this game, to have fun and have a break from real-life.

If this has caused offence, then I apologise.  This isn't singled at anyone in particular, this has been a persistant problem for some time now and is by no means an isolated event.  You can RP your characters as you wish.  But if the Army Command deem it unbecoming of a position or rank, then your characters can expect to hear about it. 

I put this on the OOC board (and Announcements) so there is no confusion over it (which didn't quite work out).  Senior characters have been trying to instil a sense of discipline in-game for months with limited success so I'm not sure an IC post would prove more successful. 

If that's how it is. If Raven's personality isn't fitting of rank or position then he'll just have to be removed from the army.

Simple as.

It's not just about you Raven, it's about a bunch of people. And it's not that your character isn't liked. Yes I just met you what is trying to be said from my point of view is discipline needs to a key character for Military people. ESPECIALLY Grenadiers. Which there is none. Also why you noticed Darek and got a bad first impression. It's because of weeks of nobody listening and everybody acting like kids when you're supposed to be Guardsman. Darek is not 100% strict. You just seen him in a very stressed day. I love peoples characters, but some characters personalities do not fit their position in the guard. Not saying rank but squad even. Can be either way. Yes we are roleplaying people and it is a game, understood, there is plenty of time to play around but alot of people do it too much and when told to chill they don't. You CHOSE to play a military guard. Roleplaying is supposed to be as real as possible. At least that is what I thought.

I think the best way to end this debate is the character's trying to keep an eye on their characters IC actions and command agreeing to not nit pick away at our characters personality's. There needs to be a little give and take. I just feel we are attacking the characters individuality to a degree. This is such a gray area...

Yea..*scratches head*





Thats kinda how I felt too..

Nail on the head Darek. And Nightchill's correct, discipline has waned, respect has waned, and well so too has the fun. Its no fun for me when the military setting is ruined by the crap the army does put up with and the fact that proper punishments don't get carried out. We have "the Covian Book of Law" perhaps we should all use IT instead of random beatings and punishments from now on? My two cents.

Thanks,

Marcus Koba

It is a military setting and I do remember it being much more strict IC a couple years back. I liked that alot, I'll certainly welcome it again. But it has deteriorated over a long period of time if its as bad as it sounds now (I havent been much ingame lately so kinda unaware) but it shouldnt turn so very strict so suddenly imo. People might need to adjust again.

*shrug*

Discipline should be tight when the situation calls for it, such as during a patrol, sentry, skirmish, battle, law enforcement action, in the presence of the Baron or Commander or Churchmen, and when we go abroad. In other words, if its official military business, behave as such.

Fun and Relaxation should be had when nothing important is going on, such as when you're relaxing in a tavern or winding down after a hunt. However, if you're relaxing in the tavern thats no excuse to ignore an order or give a superior a hard time. Keep yourselves under control, and keep in mind that for some people playing a strictly disciplined soldier is fun, and that having the other soldiers running amok impedes on that fun.

The cardinal rule here is show some respect, for yourself and others.

That is all.

Raven: If your character's personality is ditzy, and a bit of a disobidient person, then the character should be punished (IMO). If you have a problem with it OOC, you should not forget that the punishment is IC, and that your character can learn its lesson.

I wouldn't say i chose to be a guard. I chose to be in a guild with great people like boc. With the possibility for pvp and the grenadiers is the only progression in the system, i wasn't aware that the grenadiers were modelled on your ideals.

I don't think this thread has been at anyone or any group of people in particular and as been mentioned it is probably the culmination of the slow relaxtion of discipline over time.

That said, players roleplaying guardsmen have a code of conduct to abide by and a chain of command to follow, so on and so forth. If discipline is breached characters will be punished. If your style of RP makes you a sloppy guardsman then you'll no doubt pay the price.

However when off duty, there's nothing wrong in having some fun as long as it's nothing ridiculous or hurtful towards other players.

Whether you're a discipline driven hard nut or a slovenly guard the important thing is to respect your fellow players, keep in the spirit and concept of Cove and most of all to have fun.

As a rule, if you want to be "Off Duty" and go relax, take off your uniform before you do it. Not only is this good roleplay (Try relaxing in Platemail irl), it goes a long way towards showing respect for the uniform and what it stands for.

If you're wearing your uniform, behave like the soldier your character is.

If you want to take a break from soldiering, take your uniform off and put on some civilian clothes.

- Keres

Its a good way to show if youre on or off duty at the time. Every soldier goes off duty sometimes.

When joining the Guard either way you should expect a military atmosphere. Grenadiers is not only just a progression, it's an elite squad that represents the Baron and Cove. Supposed to be the best of the best soldiers, so it's not really modelled after ideals but it's supposed to be the serious soldiers representing Cove and all, which is why it used to be way harder to get into. And why I would like to get the entree standards back up. If you see the Grenadiers a just progression it's supposed to be more than that and you're in for the wrong reason. IMO not saying quit the Grenadiers just correcting what they are to ya.

The Army of Cove is that...an Army. If you are not a civillian, I think you should expect there will at times be harsh discipline. Heck, even the civies get it from the church. We know they will burn, whip, beat, torment and generally harass according to their own set of rules.

There will be civilian security positions opening up soon as well.  More choices are opening up now that there are more civvies joining. If your character is a buffoon, you have to expect to get treated with strict discipline if you act out of line. (Dont get me wrong, it can be very enjoyable at times, but it can also get old fast when you are trying to run a hunt Im sure. Like herding cats.)

I've ICily seen recruits and regulars blatantly ignoring orders of superiors...Discipline has been slowly waning over the past month or so. Even Railen who is NOT military knows better than to argue (much) with Raiden when given an order- (and ICily Railen really wanted a piece of Keres- or well...to add fiber to his diet.  Har! Ooc, its hilarious and good Rp, no worries Torrak!)

I for my part will get better at the Guild Chat.  Garak, thank you for tellin us to shut the heck up. I, for one, appreciate it. I'm tryin to break bad habits and be better at following the chat guidelines mentioned on this very site!

Ive got years with other guilds where Guild chatter is horrific, filled with folks complainin bout other folks, Politics getting out of hand cause people spout off about what they are frustrated with in the heat of the moment and things being blown way out or proportion- or things that are said being misquoted, out of context and used to wedge divides in guilds.

 I love that Cove isn't like that- and don't want to see it ever start to go that direction.

Cove has been very active with several plots going on behind the scenes. Events, Hunts, ongoing stories all make a very rich and fun atmosphere. We need to respect each other and keep it up.

I've known you for ages' but a point is' we;ve got our undisciplined folk that are irritating at times rank gets throw around and trust me I had it first hand with half of command back in the day"Half of them will tell you I was a Royal pain!:D"

Point is you may roleplay the character in a certain way but at times you need to step up that is all doesn't mean completely changing the personality into a robot' as that's just lame.

For instance not to attack people though you know who you are :P Why would a Baron's Grenadier be wearing a dead Bear's carcass on his head when he represents the Baron in his stead and there to lead by example, we arn't savages though sometimes I wonder *Eyes a certain Baolin the Barbarian!* Anyhow....
I love how Delf, Torrak and Raven roleplay that way, and Torrak does what he has to do when he need's to though at times we all slip up.
So all the attacking' on people about there roleplay is bad even if you don't like it, hell I originally went to GRD cause of Discipline issues with some recruits(Thank the lord they're no longer here), but where ever you go and whatever you do!
They'll be that style or player who want to act like that there simple punishment's and ETC to sort it all RP.

But I do think everyone should take a step back and "Chill the *** out!" excuse my french!

End of the day Jen said it's about fun, why else would be roleplay?

Think of being disciplined as learning a new skill or expanding in a new context of roleplay, up to you what you do!
Honest who wants to be demoted?

Right bedtime for me now Chill and think! See you Bronze Buddies at 7pm!

S'not have any personal attacks, yo.

Let's also clarify something for those that are confused:

This is on the OOC board for a few reasons, being the following:

*There is (evidently) a lack of understanding between a few players about the discipline of the Army within the Baronship. The boundaries of OOC and IC should be defined, but how can a character know something IC if the player doesn't get it OOC? We are, ultimately, the ones sat typing what our characters are saying.

*It wouldn't make sense to make a point about Guild Chat on the IC Boards.

*The disagreement and quarrelling was to be expected to an extent, but on the IC boards constructive criticism couldn't be handled in a sincere and proper way.

Demarian, I have extracted parts of your post as it is completely irrelevant and uncalled for.

-Rach/Kelly.

Can we just lock the thread its kinda depressing

I say you all overthrow your superiors and make me commander. I would make life fair for the simple Covian peasant. Viva La resistance!

But anywho. GC has to cut, gets to a point when you holding a event, running a event, or even just rping, and suddenly on gc someone write a complaint or such, gets really irksome when you then tell the said individual, please be quiet, event on so forth. And then 5 minutes later, same thing occurs again... sigh.

As for discipline in the army, Grenadiers whom behave childishly and all carebears...? How insulting I say. Arn't you folk meant to be the best of the best of the best? If you want to act silly, why not get your character drunk due to some "Birtdhay" which you can make up on the spot who it is, then go tavern, get drunk, then get silly and wear your hats? Makes alot of rp sense when your drunk is all fun and good! Mind you, next day when your in a stockade with a hangover regretting it all adds to the fun too.

Good with the bad, is what I say!

                  In my opinion I agree with Dem. Thread needs to be locked. If there is an issue with the Grenadiers then it needs to be brought up with Torrak quietly. So he can then deal with his men( That is IF there are any issues needing addressing). These discipline issues across the military needs to be dealt with internally. Many different points have been made about this subject. I think the conversation is going no where and is turning into a finger pointing. I say lock the thread.

I'm inclined to agree with Hayden at this point. If you have an issue with the Grenadiers' behavior, bring it to Me, Raiden, or Darek, and we'll discuss it and make the necessary adjustments. Also, the thread has outlived its usefulness. Insert key and twist.

Thread locked.