Welcome to Cove

I have a Dream .............. and that dream is WAR
for many years now Cove has battled Yew.  Sometimes we have been aided by Vesper, Some times we battled alone.  We have war-ed with trinsic, but so have Yew.  I propose a war on Yew, I propose a plan of battle stretching over many coming months.  Sometimes we will disagree with our Allies and battle will ensue but eventually all weapons will point at Yew!  then it will be that we go to attack! then is when we shall all Marshal our forces to make war in it truest form!

Basically the event i would like to lead up to is this. A siege.  As anyone who knows much of medieval fighting will know one of the major aspects of war is the siege, now as a role playing comunity we have many skirmishes but no big important battles.  What i would like it to be is a 1 to 2 hour event where the combined forces of Europas role playing comunity lay siege to stonekeep and surround it. id like fortifications built, a picketline for the horses, id like to see water barrels provided and camp fires going with a smiths tent for repairing the men's armour with meby one of the stone rares as an anvil and several fires piled for a forge, id like to see cooking pots on the fires, id like to have citizen around selling goods, Meby even a few temporary female alts as whores(possibly even a rent boy?), basically the whole tent city thing going on.

Then meby leave one small break in the fortifications and Grd can sneak out in the night to shop at the tent stalls and gamble around the campfire's in disguise. During the day small skirmishes can take place as assaults are made on the walls by small forces. Then after a couple of ultima day and nights the citizen go and fetch there main chars again and there is a giant fight.  If grd are badly outnumbered meby there can be a traitor in the ranks who swaps sides for the big battle. ie trinsic or vesper betray boc or boc betray trinisc and vesper.  Basically whichever will make for most even sides for a good fun battle.

I know what I'm suggesting is a HUGH undertaking to organise and i myself nither have the position nor the time when im not at work that is suitable to run around organising such an event.  Because of this i am asking for someone else to manage the setting up of this event and whilst i myself will do as much as i can someone who has the time to talk to the right people when they are on-line and organise the fine details would be great.  one final thing the reason i chose to attack stonekeep is the location not something against Grd  basically it is the most fortress like with a big open space right next to it for the tent city.

There are many small tweaks that can be done to this event to make it memorable, meby a group of besiegers get caught in there tower and have to make a dash across the lines on the first night, meby a lonely waywatcher gets caught in the forest and while attempting to sneak in to join his comrads gets caught in the camp during the day and spends it pretending to be a stable boy working with the horses. meby a group of grenadiers decide to try and sneak into stonekeep disguised as washer women. so much could be done to make this one of the bigest most enjoyable events in Europa's eight year history i really think it would be a shame not to do it.


There are many People who are thinking of joining RP guilds could come to the tent city and rp and get to know all the guilds and be encouraged to join ...... doesn't even matter who too much everyone will probably get someone and it could well be the biggest recruiting for Europa roleplay the shard has ever seen

Another POSSIBLE outcome would be to liaise with OSI in this matter and have all the forces band together to hold off an invading host off monsters at the end, i know they have done something similar once before and whilst i doubt it IF it could be arranged would top the event off nicely i think(also the people looking at roleplay could join in this battle even though not yet guilded whereas between the guilds they could only watch)

Your thoughts are welcome.

*Pointless and slightly trollesque post*

You didn't read the part about tweaking, did you? It could easily be arranged so that the Britannians and Trinsicians instead come to the aid of the loyalist Guardsmen, no? The idea itself is good, a lot more than mere PvP would ensue, and probably, if done well, it would be enjoyable by all, no?

As for ridiculous... the Ilshenar event! Bwahahahahahaha!

Right, normally I would be all in favour of keeping things friendly and only deliver positive criticism.
But you sir, mister Justiciar... are a buffoon! Did you even read the entire piece or just the first few lines of it? Had you taken the time to properly read this article then you would have seen the part about balancing the fight, like Od mentioned also.

I do feel this would work actually and it could be bigger and even more enjoyable than the Kaldor campaign. Many people could not only take part in this, they could also organize their own little tidbits. Whereas the officers would organize the stuff of major importance, squad leaders could organize their own little raid, exploring parties and other tidbits. And then don't even get me started on the civvies, there will be plenty to do for them there as well!

On the other hand, I can also see this thing will be huge and will be a plague to keep organized and running smoothly.  So in order to pull off this one, alot of preparations and agreements will have to be made. Some sub events may go wrong and it would be sad to see guilds withdrawing from this campaign just over a small dispute or something which happened during a single event. But then, I guess we're all professionals here ;). So to conclude, I'd say go for it!

I have to agree to Kazuo about Justiciars statement. You´d better read something and try to get the idea behind it instead of cursing and blaming without understanding what it is all abaout. Who said we want create a situation where we could fight an outnumbered victim? What a bullshit!! *spits on the floor and coughs* ;c)

About the campaign and it´s preparations:
For an exercise of the dimensions a well thought script is needed. That script has to be coordinated with all participating guilds. But with that script everyone should know his left and right border, and the line of fire :c). Also with that script we might get OSI or at least some GM on our side to assist. I like the idea of the final battle, where rebels and loyalists fight side by side against a larger opponent, only to break again after the threat is overcome.
One main dificulty I see is the coordination in times none of the "higher" guild members is on, or where only few members are on, because without control things might run out of hand. So additional to the script all guilds have go to be VERY disciplined...
But I think it can be done, but preparations will take some time.

As I had to organize larger events and exercises in RL I know the imporance of a guide line with the necessary guidance combined with possible flexibility.

I think its a very good idea. This should be discussed on the GM boards on forums4games.

I say go for it, real fun RP this would be.

Well nice idea.  But its too complex.


You have to calculate the current locations of the various armies, and their alliances to others.

With Grd moving East, it be more likely they will besiege Cove. LB is holding Minoc. Vesper is off in Lakeshire. Trinsic was saving their Duke, no idea what they up to now.

And these are the guilds of goodness.  Who knows what the guilds of evil are up to.

Its a great idea and if it can be pulled off would be a memorable event. I like the idea of civvies tottering around trying to earn some gold while everyone is waiting for one site to make the move

Nice one :)

The concept is great! The scale enormous and the logistics... gah!.

Dunno if it could be pulled off but what a spectacle it would be if it could.

Armies camped outside Stonekeep or Cove for that matter. Another guild coming to the rescue to lift the siege or maybe a huge orc army attacking the beseigers and new alliances formed???

Sounds like fun  :) if it could be done  ;D

Also with regard to Justiciar's comments I would like to say a few words... but I don't feel it would be proper to post them here. Suffice to say that I think you missed the point buddy?

I don't think the event is designed to pwn Grd's alt ... er... i mean all (or do i?) conquering forces but to have a huge RP event that many guilds allied and enemy could enjoy which would also be a great advert for the merits of Europa's RP community.

My Dream is to see SK burn, so let's try!  :D

I think we are currently at a big war with Grd. I'm sure Klion will continue his Advance towards Minoc soon now that the silly Ilshenar campaign is over.

And if that event is underway alot of commercial to the citizens(blues) would attract alot of people. The best recruiters should join forces and get out there and get people to join. And an army of monsters, yeah. I want this :P


And it could be done after the minoc campaign? Or try it at minoc maybe, siege minoc like the same only smaller. And do it in Yew later.

I'm all for it. We should aim to make sure that both sides are pretty much equal in their fighting capabilities so that it would be a long drawn out thing. If you made it really big i'm sure some of the GMs would help out and maybe add in some things the normal game couldn't provide (barricades etc.) if you ask nicely that is :)

This is pretty similiar to an idea i had brewing in my mind... Cept mine was to take place on a massive desolate battlefield where fortifications and even siege engines are built... A realistic battlefield basically..


But this sounds good as well, though i would think Cove would make a better place to be sieged due to our massive walls. Grd could camp out in the shire and we could make camp within the town, seal the docks off etc.

Yeah, and we could have sea battles :) But could perhaps have something alike to when Kaldor attack Cove, just more of a siege instead of a run-over? :D

There are quite a few problems here.
First of all, the southern guilds (DOT, E-V, A^K) have been enemies of Grd and wouldn't aid them in a million years. LB would (and are) aiding them, but pretty much every other RP guild out there hates them with a vengeance. Not to mention most of the southern guilds are blue to Grd and do not wish to change that.
So that's your first problem.

Problem two is, as you say yourself, you don't have time to organise this. I know from bitter experience that organising an ambitious scenario like this, whilst rewarding, is also incredibly stressful. (I organised the Kaldor invasion of Trinsic 2.5 years ago and agreed to be jailed for two weeks after just to give myself time to recover. Which is twice as long as the scenario lasted!)
War does generate a lot of activity and RP. However it also generates a lot of whining and complaints, which the GMs and AGMs then have to spend time sorting out. Sorry, but that's a fact of life.

Not trying to put you off, but those are the things you must take into account. Good luck.

Cal is right, this event would have to remain strictly between the Northern Alliance and the Grd/LB alliance. That's not so much of a bad thing as between those there is still a huge player base.

Unless of course the far south played the part of a third force? A three way siege would be very interesting and i'm sure the southern guilds could be persuaded to war Grd for one campaign.

Just an idea.

A seige eh? Back in the CoY days Grd tried this on a smaller scale with TBK. Basicly had a fortified line which was maintained everyday and various skirmishes etc. I think it worked out quite well.

But this is the next level in terms of organisation.

I voted Nay on this one. Although if it worked it would most probably be the best event ever *grins* but, I believe it is just not possible.

For one thing, a mass amount of lengthy activity from both sides would be needed. Meaning that people can't just log off when they need to go, and to stop people from doing this is verging on the line of impossible.

Also, it would be extremely difficult to please everyone. Even in small battles such as the ones with BoC and GRD on the Eastern bridge, there's always at least three people getting annoyed at an unfair knock etc. so having a huge battle like this will probably get people so angry that they just go on strike from playing, which is never good.

Going onto a more RL style problem....lag. Probably the most hated and most spoken about thing in the world of online gaming. If we were blessed by the Lord and a miracle took place, and many people did come online to take part in this spectacular event, the lag for those of us who have bad connections or computers would just be phenomenol. I mean my computer crashed at Eason's retirement thing, and wouldn't turn back on for like 2 days *smirks*.

Also, in a brighter note, I always liked my idea of 2 huge forces, meeting together in the middle of a field, in excellent looking formations, with cavalry, footsoldiers and archers and then the two armies just clash together in one big blur of swords and sheilds, would be fantastic!

Some moderating words:

Please refrain from calling scenario's or plots stupid. People invested a lot of effort in them and were more then likely enjoyed by a large part. Especially if you are not yourself organising that type of plots. It's always easier to criticise then to build.

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but I can say that there is something in planning by the GMs of BOC, Grd and LB.  So far I've been very impressed with the north and things are starting to happening.  We already have a plot going in-game with Yew pushing their way through to Minoc.  We're trying to build on that, so all ideas are welcome.  Hopefully more guilds will also be involved when it takes off.

Cheers,

Edmund Fairholm
GM of LB
ICQ: 250-836-370

Ahh, democracy.. bollocks. Points taken! I did read the whole post, but as was said, my attention shifted to one or two lines. Regardless, I still don't see the point of it, nor do I get how it would make sense IC - as Cal said - all guilds fighting over Stonekeep? Why? Most avoid it like a plague. One or two town-centred guilds and their allies scuffing it out makes alot more sense. Isn't that what's going on right now?

Keep your "buffoon" comments to yourself, ejit.  :-*

Last warning. If someone else feels the need to make offensive remarks I'll wack this thread with the boardnazi stick till it's in the netherworld

Seems to me just one person intent on badmouthing and destroying a good idea Erik, punish him not us.

It's a rather big vision you have here, Alth.
Nice thoughts, and it is doo-able. But you'd probably be better off choosing a neutral spot, as opposed to Stonekeep (or Cove for that matter).

I mean what happens if you break the siege? Hell NO to either Stonekeep or Cove handing over its reigns to be occupied *Grins* That was the ultimate fault with the Kaldorian invasion of Cove. At the end of the day, when Kaldor won.. it just led to a rather embarrassing OOC switch to get Cove back to BoC.

If I may make a suggestion.
As said before, organising a campaign in a neutral area always works out better. Back when we were fighting in the Trinsic Jungles with The Kaldorian Line, you had your usually ranting and whining and PVP tempers in all their full glory - but neither party was too badly scarred by homes being invaded and such. It worked out quite nicely, and ran for a good few weeks.

Minoc
As Grd push to Minoc, that would be the better point of sieging - as there's no Guild really based there. Its no one's Home, but if Grd/LB occupy it - it'll at least become a Command Post in the Northern frontier of Britannia.

In my opinion, adding to what Grd and LB are already building would be awesome! And I'm sure they'd appreciate the help AND action. So we could possibly lay siege to either forward posts, or the city of Minoc ITSELF.
And as for the large campaign, well.. marching onto Minoc would definitely be pretty kool. Due to Grd's size and LB's help, the forces of Cove, Vesper, VTC and KH would probably even out.

We just need a good reason :) And don't say an all powerful Ring! Forged by the evil Klion in the DARK TOWER of Stonekeep! Into it he poured his malice and greed! Bwahahahah! *Grins*

Minoc is our playground.

And I'd just like to back up Erik on the comments about other Scenarios. Being on the GM Board and regularly chatting with other Leaders, there's a LOT of work that's done, chaps. A LOT of work done. And we all need to respect that. And as far as I heard the people involved in the Ilshenar Campaign had a great time.
As Erik said, 'easier to criticise than to build'.

But by all means ending with a positive note, nice work Alth! Good to keep zhe ol' mind active ;)

'But pretty much every other RP guild out there hates them with a vengeance' - LB, and KT aren't our enemies last I checked. And elements of Vesper are working with us toward a mutual goal.... it wouldnt be too hard for us to muster sufficient men to balance the half a dozen Eastern guilds.

That said, your leaders are correct. Minoc is a perfect place for this kind of Campaign, we just need to organise it better.

As stated in my post i only picked stonekeep because of the layout with the big keep then the open area in front of it for roleplay to happen easily.  I don't mind who is on who's side nor where the fight is held that's up to the politics in and out of game the idea for the event is to hold the EVENT doesn't matter where its the happening itself and minoc would be great
a trench line all sorts could be done

i just feel its something worth considering.

In my opinion a fantastic idea with lots of possibilities - and dangers ;c).

But we won´t know if its possible until we tried it. If we fail - that´s life. If it works there is lot of fun and something to be remembered hopefully over years :c). And maybe we get even OSI moved to assist if the see the players are very active. Anything special remembering for the great battles, like the statues at Drachenfels´ Brit entrance as memories for the siege a few months ago. Imagine a large memorial on the field of the last battle where Cove finally won over the evil forces of Yew and their allies. Or a specially designed crown for the coronation of King Ben Radau I., former scout of Cove and first dwarven ruler over whole Trammel.... *cries for emotions, coughs and spits, and takes another deep sip of Bugman´s XXX, best dwarven brew*

I like the consept, Minoc would be a Great place to hold it.

All we need to do is just work it out on how and what will be done. And who will do this or that.

Two points i wish to mention here. 

1) I appreciate everyone's views and input on  this issue here and hope that this is something we are able to to achieve but if not then at least we have tried.

2)If you have to slate the idea you dislike it that much then do me one favour.  DO SOMETHING.  Hey this may not be the most feasible idea ever but at least I'm coming up with an idea so if you don't like it come up with something else instead of just dissing me for trying.

anyway sorry to blow up a little there but that's how i feel.  I don't mind any alterations to the idea infact i love anything that may help this come to be in some form but if you have nothing constructive to add then post your vote and get lost so those of us who wish to try and make this work can plan the event of the century

Okay will try to see if can do some input

I played some warhammer campaigns.  And they are built on the terms of ( hard to draw this but will try)

event a
army 1 fights army 2

result of event
overwhelming win by army 1 leads to event b
win for army 1 leads to event c
win for army 2 leads to event d
overwhelming win for army 2 leads to event e

Now the armies would have to be even, and i don't mean in men.  Like warhammer have points to play with, and costs for abilities.

elite archer (highly skiled)100 points is worth more than an archer (non gm) 50 points

to use potions, charge 10 points per man per potion
10 arrows cost 10 per man
weapon cost per weapon type
armour cost per man

so a 1000 point battle one army could have
9 elite archers (900) with 10 arrows (90) each and one have a healing potion (10)

Also a defending force should get benefits for this, maybe 1 exploding potion for each man, like a cannon barrage (think right word)

Problem with uo is getting people on at a certain time, so to calculate an army would have to be spur of the moment.


Also you have to note who was at which combat, eg if cove and vesper attacked from the south them units couldn't be used in the northwest, as they would be holding the south still.  If they were moved from the south to help in the NW battle, it should be noted that the southern force was weakened.

We sort of used Campaign Settings with Kaldor.
We didn't go so specific as to include unit costs and such, but ye had to conquer individual Sentry Posts to capture the entire defensive line and progress to Strongholt, the heart of Kaldorian operations.

We never breached the Line, but got damn close. The Militia (as it was known as then) was recalled to protect Covian borders from Vesper.

Didn't get to finish the idea, had to leave work :). so posted and ran. to finish off...

Was going to say. Calculating points system in Uo is pointless. How can you know if member a is worth 15 points and member b is 30 etc.

Only way to do it, that i can see is do it like Pbm. divide the whole world into grids. With key points in the grids, ( not necessarily the same size)

Have a day and time for the invasion. other days just normal activities.  On invasion day, have your whole army set to do things, lets use Grd as an example. 
They could have some men guarding stonehold, a few out doing other duties and rest in the invasion force.  then cove would have to have men defend against this invasion force or launching an attack on minoc, or assisting vesper in something etc.  You have a limited resource, the men.  and have to plan where to put them.


Also if siegeing a city, the city should start off with say 100 food, 100 wood 100 iron.  Each day of the siege will reduce this number down.  With the mine they get more ore, as long as they still hold the Mine.  But with the food and ore, they will need to get it supplied.  So there have to be a navy blockade also to stop, merchants resupplying.  Maybe pirates will attack these merchants.  Maybe vesper merchants will actually be providing the supplies cause they love money more than honor ( spelt that on to show the uo virtue).

question for you.  If thinking which city which resource, what would your idea be.

Minoc and cove = ore
Yew = wood and leather
Trinsic = sand = potion bottles
vesper = coinage most likely

Clever, and fun.

Trinsic is also a major port so fish and imported luxury goods too.

As for rules, KISS. (Keep it Simple, Stupid). The more complex they get, the more confused players become and the less fun the event will be.

hmmm whilst i don't agree entirely with Tom's ideas I feel theres a lot of good can be taken from this

for example with the griding idea we can have mini event spin offs with troops in the other side due to the grid they are occupying, also like the khaldorian line principle

I dont think Cove will war Trinsic anytime soon. I'd focus efforts on the Vesper/Minoc/Yew area.