Welcome to Cove

Hiho everyone!

Just a few thoughts about our beloved Covian army:

1. I understand that the squads are too small and therefore we have no real separation in the chain of command, for example only the squad corporals or OC can command their squad, and the "ordinary" guardsmen" have to follow the orders of the superiors. But nevertheless I think it would be correct that way. Else a Highlander Regular *waves to Thomas* can order a Junior Scout, thought they have different ways of fighting and thinking IC, and therefor troubles can be expected.

2. Discipline: in the armed forces NOBODY ever dares to punish someone while their shared superior is present. The correct way is to report an incident to the actual leader, else he would loose his authority. Of course you might call it "nitty critty", but we have a lax behaviour in this thing, and I don´t thing it´s correct that way.

3. Ben will NEVER follow the order of a dragoon, he is busy keeping himself from trying to kill him for being among the "beard-pullers" ;c) Dwarven hate burns hot and long....

First Point: Squad is irrelevant in regard to rank. Either ye are a junior or not. And then you can be ordered around by any superior regardless of squad.

Second Point: Agreed. Totally.

Third Point: Indeed, Ben being a dwarf, expect grudges of this sort. Dwarves hold them for centuries and even pass them down in the family.

So I basically agree with Ben there.

First point i go with Delc'

Second point, i agrea with.... though Tom wouldn't

Third point, fine. its an Rp trait.... but expect to be punished for if it gets to the point of ignoring orders. Like i would for point two.

Just something on your second point, if a superior is there, report to them and ask permission to punish. It's up to the superior to decide whether they take the matter into their own hands or delegate it back to the reporting soldier then. I think they call it covering yer arse :P

That´s what we do right now, but I still think it is not correct. Maybe it is because of the used phrases. In my opinion squads are usually used to describe platoon-equivalents, and a platoon is rarely fighting alone, the usual command level for squads is the company (sorry for the maybe wrong or complicated sentences, but I am too lazy and too long out of school to do it better right now). So when I hear "squad" I see for example the platoons of an infantry company. But we use squads for different troups, like in RL tanks, infantry, air cav and so on. And in my way of thinking an ordinary soldier of a tank company CANNOT order an soldier of for example armored reconnaissance for he isn´t trained to understand the ways a scout fights, and - even more important - thinks. Only officers and NCO are trained for joint and combined leadership.
What would that mean for us: as long as you´re not a commanding member of the squad you shouldn´t be allowed to command another squad soldier. Exceptions: you are leading a hunt, training or whatever...

Well the UO RP divisions in BoC is not as the IRL squads.

And on the punishment thingy. There aren't no consequences when not following orders, so breaking orders or failing to do as someone with higher rank tells you to doesn't matter because you can get away with it. Now I definitely don't want no uber harsh super duper army here but i dunno, some consequences.

But punishment should be allowed only from officers. BUT when a junior or a regular punishes a recruit or a watchman away and not seen by others villingly to report it.The lower ranks, being punished and beat up could tell an officer. But can't expect to get even because they rather trust a junior then a newly recruited..recruit :P


But again, its what the guild is aiming for, harsh disciplined army or playfull militia

Regarding discipline: We have become the Covian Army. Thus a crackdown on discipline.

Regarding modern vs medieval: We're definitivly a medieval army, besides, it's not uncommon today to have infantry commanders bossing around specialist units that serve under them. Hence why I mean that only rank matters.

Regarding punishment: Delc will certainly punish quite harshly any disobedience in the covian army, just because I think it's the only logical way to respond to insubordinance in an army.

Cove becoming an army should mean we get a boost in discipline not the other way around, seeing how we where a militia before (armed peasants)

Forget the punishing think, that is not the question, especially for you are an officer and have the task to punish to keep the discipline.

The question is: do we want a mixture of the squads, the one might ask if different uniforms and especially speciallized leaders are necessary....
Again, just my thoughts, I think we haven´t done the specialization of the Army branches completly. And for RP-things: the scouts are said to be a "special", some say "strange" bunch. That Ben didn´t follow the orders of a dragoon is something special and hasn´t completly to do with the problem.

I can't see how not following orders is being special.

The Official Chain of Command for the Baronship Army is and will always be... Recruit - Watchman - Junior - Regular - Senior - Veteran - Officers...  No matter the squad, you cannot disregard rank...


If a Regular Dragoon orders a Junior Scout around, it is because he can due to superior experience within the army and recognition as a superior by the Army Command.


We brought in squads to further the diversity of the Covian Militia, but it always worried us that there might fule up rivalries between squads and cause anarchy within the ranks. It seems this worry is becoming a reality these days. If it continues to elevate into something more, you may very well expect to see certain squads involved simply dissolved. 

I agree with Hrothgar completely. Orders from Higher Ranking Officers will be followed no matter the Squad. Squad you ask? Squad is just another name for a certain group in the army, it doesn't mean that you can ignore command because he is in a different Squad.

Gah, is my English so bad nobody understands it... *sighs*


As I said, I know the chain - but nevertheless always thought of it not being correct - as I said, MY opinion as an active soldier...
But nevertheless, I wanted other opinions, I got them, and therefor it is useless to continue this discussion, for it seems nobody sees it the way I do.

Yep, but this is an interesting Discussion! ;)

Discussions are good for devolpment, don't stop  :P

Just listen to Shadwell.

Who's Shadwell?  ::)

I'd rather we were still a Covian militia to be quite honest, all this Covian Army business is just too strict, I prefer a nice laid back approach where fun is the main priority. I mean sure both an army and a militia would have situations where people are being disciplined or getting into trouble but when it gets to a point when that's all that's happening it gets tedious really fast.

Just my tuppence of course, I'm only here for the pies and warm beds really.

Basically it seems that the fear of squads becoming rivals is becoming a reality, which needs to be addressed. Seeing as the punishment of Nicholi publically seemed to have a bit of an effect on the drgoons seems discipline does work, BUT too much discilpline equals lack of fun.  It's a fine line that needs to be investigated.

It also seems that the rules of the "chain of command" need to be seen to as well, because Ben was breaking the "rules" by refusing to follow Toms command but Tom was breaking the "rules" by issueing a punishment whilst Kal (the commanding officer) was present, so the rules regarding ordering people around might need to be clarified.

just a few suggestions.. as i am staying as far out of these inter squad fuedings as i can! a nice bit of friendly rivalry is great but bitter arguments arnt. FACT.

I would like to remind you pessimisic lot that this is a game...

no it isnt!!! *cries and runs around in circles*

indeed. it is a game. this is a fact. thats why im saying the discipline needs to be sorted. there was no need for Tom to go punishing Ben. Equally Ben should not have refused the orders, it's just something that needed to be addressed, and i believe it has been addressed.. so that it GOOD and EVERYONE is happy... RIGHT!!???

Well the whole deal is that you CAN choose to follow orders or not. Just know that aslong as its IC behaviour it will be dealt with IC.

righto, well i recon this issue has gone on long enough ey... is everyone happy with the conclussion. ??

chain of command is important
discipline is important but not designed to take the fun away from Cove

righto!?

Just one thing....
A section of the web, or a post on the BoC announcement board, should underline the points just made so the same mistake doesn't happen again.

Now thats that!
Someone please lock this thread before sqd's start disapearing!!

Please....!

This discussion doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Thread locked.