I'm around frequently, though I'm not sure Camby really marries well with much of the populace, and I'm around Cove more with Bolivar, who can be found working in the Public Workshop most nights.

Camby is a retired businesswoman, with no in game skills of note.
Bolivar is primarily a Tradesman, specialising in Tailoring and Smithywork.

I accept the majority tenet that realism is tempered to facilitate gameplay. The underlying problem is the lack of "In Character Actions = In Character Consequences", one of the fundamentally most important facets of roleplaying.

As it stands there are no consequences for losing battles, losing conflicts and partaking in PvP. It genuinely, doesn't matter. In real terms, PvP is done for the sake of PvP, and no other reason. There is no impact. There is no fear, no possible loss, nothing. There is an endless cycle of PvP, coupled with chronic short term memory loss.

Some months ago Tweeso swindled Camby out of 150,000 gold pieces. Personally, she'd want him dead, but that's not possible. There are no consequences to anything and people can do what they want with impunity.

One day a guild attacks an area, and weeks later it's all forgotten. Alliances change and relations shift with the wind, and underlying this there is an absolute absence of fear and caution.

If we could in any way reclaim a true sense of danger, a true feeling of consequences for the actions we undertake, that would be my ideal, but unfortunately I am, and always have been in the vast minority in this. It's the primary reason I've never involved myself in rp PvP, because it feels too much like a suspenion of roleplaying to me. It feels more like an excuse for safe PvP.

The roleplaying community will never adopt a more hardcore approach to PvP, and I accept that. I believe fervently however, that the vast majority of roleplaying that happens today isn't roleplaying, but a shadow of a reflection of roleplaying, accepted and enforced through years of conditioning and second nature. Too much of what happens is caricature.

I have no doubt that the roleplaying society in which we partake is a lot of fun. I have no reason to believe it cannot go on to a stronger and more robust future, but equally so, I imagine if we had a blank slate, and could create a society from scratch, so much more could be done. However, that won't happen, and the concepts in which we roleplay are forever etched into the subconciousness of the society.

The truth of the matter, is that many of the guides and tips for roleplay given are specious. Success to roleplaying in the community is not about your ability to develop your character, nor is it in understanding your characters agendas and feelings. It is not in taking consequences for your characters actions nor is it in being with your character as they deal with the stresses and dangers of the life they lead. Success is in learning the rules and conventions in which the roleplaying community operates. I believe any rules and conventions should be there to support the basic principles of roleplay. As it is, instead, in the main they serve to promote more fun PvP and less opportunities for "unfairness" that may be more realistic, but would arguably be less fun for the player behind the character.

Naturally, I admit that much of what I say is suited to a perfect community scenario, but really, I can only think of two rules that I would probably enforce in an ideal world. One would be no insurance, and the other would be permadeath in PvP. Other than that, roleplay would cover everything else. Then people would understand danger, fear and suspense. Then we'd have "In character actions = In character consequences" and then we'd have a real world to live and die in.

But, that's not the "sort" of roleplaying the majority of people want.

"Ey Tom! Haven't seen ye fer ages! How's the wife!"
"umm shes good how are you"

And...

"Ey Tom! Haven't seen ye fer ages! How's the wife!"
"None o' yer business, you bug-eyed rascal! Get outta here a'fore I call a guard!" *shakes a fist*

To be honest, the first example is so much better than the second. The second one is like some sort of Monty Python caricature, something that is far too easy for roleplayers to fall into.

Instead of truly adopting a role, people fall into a form of Auto-pilot, and the second example is an illustration of exactly that.

Whilst the first example could use a touch of punctuation, it is a far more realistic and earthy response, rather than the easy to do "caricature+emote" autopilot that many people do.

Roleplaying isn't action, it's not measured by the extravagance of your ability to put verbs inside of a pair of asterisks and your characters are not a hybrid of Monty Python and Village idiots. They are real people, as real as you or I. 99% of your dialogue should probably be quite boring, and the other 1 percent even more boring still. Unless we want to put our hands up and admit, we're living in a caricature, then we need to stop speaking like we're living in one.

The problem I have, is many people really do live in a caricature, and much of the dialogue that goes on, really wouldn't be out of place in a Monty Python movie.

The problem is of course exacerbated by the way we live in Sosaria, with many people actively roleplaying in the world whilst trying to pretend the vast majority of it doesn't exist. Coupled with the paradoxes that exist, such as the endless battles, conflicts and actions with few consequences and no one ever dying, it is clearly a lot for new people to roleplaying to take in.

I'd simply say, that people new to the playstyle, should try and be as boring as possible. Resist the temptation for hyperbole, resist the temptation to over dramatise, please don't emote at every given opportunity, and do try and impart information in the way you type out your character's dialogue.

One MORE thing. When you die in game, IT ISN'T DYING. It's getting knocked un conscious. When you ressurect someone, it's helping them up. So don't ask if someone can res or ressurect. Ask someone to help you help somebody to his feet. Roleplay.

Don;t get me started on that. Its the worst concept in roleplaying today and isnt roleplaying in the slightest.

What on earth is the point of the battles and conflicts in this world? We hear the rallying cries to battle, and the eulogies of the brave warriors. Are we having a laugh? If I spoke to a soldier in the militia, or in Kaldor or in whoever, are we to believe that in every battle, people are simply knocked out? That's absolutely absurd, and insulting to be called roleplay.

The problem is, we live in a world were we want actions, but no consequences. We live in a world of magic, a world of mystery and dangers. Everyone except for a small percentage of people accept that resurrection is a basic concept in the world we play in. How easy would it be for us all to accept that in battles, people die, suffer the pain of death, and in some circumstances can be brought back to life. The roleplaying potential and agonies of going through such a process are aplenty. But no. Instead, in every battle, people are knocked out with flamestrikes. People are knocked out with poisoned daggers. People are knocked out by a vicious Morning Star, and people are knocked out with Halberds and Broadswords. And they call that roleplaying.

Seriously kickass man, that's great.

I can produce items, and currently have an Elder Smith and Grandmaster Tailor (currently working on Tinkering).

A superb campaign start Izzy - I'll be there tonight to offer support.

Cambylobacter Seraph

Citizen

110 734 762

Character name : Cambylobacter Seraph

ICQ : 110-734-762

Profession : Retired Businesswoman. Owner of the Covian Public Workshop.

I'm barely playing at all I'm afraid and currently in the process of redecorating and selling my house. When I do get on it's for very short periods of time.

Ello there!

I did respond to your message on the board, but haven't been able catch you in game yet. I can open levels 1 to 4 at the moment, Im still a week or two away from GM Lockpicking.

Both of those posts kinda got me thinking

I wrote a story called "It got me thinking"!

It's a rather gritty piece, with some strong, but not gratuitous, language.

And it's here!

And, Calico, being a writer is one of the best things a person can be!

I know exactly what you mean when you say you are an immersive roleplayer, and I too find roleplaying by myself very involving at times. I find Camby is truest to her real self when I'm wandering about with her, seeing the world through her eyes. Many people believe it is somewhat redundant to roleplay alone, but I certainly don't think so.

Here’s the problem you see.

There is no such definitive thing as a roleplayer.

To proclaim yourself a roleplayer is no more useful, or meaningful, than to label yourself a mammal. The genus we know as “roleplayer” is as varied and diverse as the countless species of creature that share this planet with us.

To mentor someone in roleplaying, to try and describe what roleplaying is, to definitively lay down what is acceptable roleplaying and what is not, is difficult at the very least.

Are there qualities we can discuss that may relate to roleplayers? Could I dare to say, respect, empathy, a common ground, friendship? Of course, I couldn’t. That would be doing a great disservice to all those players who, as it is put, “just play the game”.

In fact there are really no defining interpersonal qualities that we can attribute solely to roleplayers; they are shared equally amongst all player types and not any one can lay claim to all those altruistic virtues some players may claim to be their own.

Allow me to use an analogy, one I hear far too often. That is, “Christian Values”. I am not a Christian myself, but enjoy discussion and have talked at length with people of all manner of religions and creeds. On discussing the anomaly that which is referred to as “Christian Values” I was led to ask, What are they?

“Friendship,” I was answered. “Trust, listening to other people, respect…”. More or less, all I could think here is that this implied that only Christians had these qualities. That to display them meant you were a Christian.

This naturally, isn’t true.

It goes without saying that I am sure many Christians do display these qualities, but then again, so do many Muslims, and Buddhists, and Football fans, and people who listen to Country and Western music and… the list goes on. Personal qualities cannot reasonably be attributed to sole groups of people. This includes people who call themselves roleplayers.

So really, before we can even begin to investigate roleplaying we have to have some idea of what being a roleplayer means. Can we get a picture of how to establish whether someone is a roleplayer, or if they are not? Do we have to find out what qualities indicate whether someone is roleplaying first? Can I tell by looking at someone if they are a roleplayer? (and I’m going to ignore for now the most important question of all – “does it matter?”)



Now let us say, for example, that we know what we’re looking for. That we know the way roleplayers act and speak and hence we can identify a roleplayer by looking at one. Would that work?

Could you identify that roleplayer when they’re standing at the bank looking inside their bankbox? Could you identify one when they’re alone killing creatures for hide? Could you tell if it was a roleplayer standing at a vendor shopping?

Well, possibly you may consider the clothes they were wearing, but really it would be difficult. An interesting practice, even from roleplayers who are not with other roleplayers, is the action of deliberately sending out signals to other people. They may emote sweating in the midday heat, or wiping an old rag over their dusty sword. This is a common roleplaying tool – heightening the sense of immersion with the in game reality by reference to things that the character may feel even if the player may not, such as temperature, light, fatigue or hunger.

This is a highly intriguing action and we could consider why players do this. Is it to let other people know they are a “roleplayer”, is it to improve their own immersion in the game, is it in the belief it enhances other people’s gaming experience. Is it simply out of habit? Is it to bring them closer to other players, or is it to put up barriers between different playstyles? The answer, most likely, is different for different players, and often a combination of a few of the above points.

There is more in this I’d like to come back to another time.

What is key though, is that if we viewed a player for 24 hours non-stop – how much of that period would we be able to tell they were a roleplayer? Again, that is going to differ vastly across the player base (and the mood of the player).

Without doubt though, different players display themselves as roleplayers to different degrees. Some clearly want to be seen as roleplayers; some don’t place the same onus on being a visible roleplayer, some may do it rarely if at all. Though, do “what” exactly?

If you create a virtuous knight who goes to Felluca and hunts criminals, isn’t that roleplaying?

If you take the role of a merchant, standing at the bank all day conducting trades, isn't that roleplaying?

Some would argue that this is indeed roleplaying. That they have chosen a character, a job, and that’s what they do. We all know how we speak in day-to-day life, why should our characters speak any differently? If people such as this demanded roleplaying be judged on actions alone, they would feel they justifiably roleplayed.

Others actively believe in looking beyond the game mechanic, even to the extent of roleplaying despite the game. They display no interest in training skills, making money, moving around. To them, why spend hours and hours training as an chef, when they can just roleplay that they already are one. "Who needs skills to roleplay?", is the stance.


So what do we have so far?

Well, maybe we have one long line?

Players---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Players

The line represents the different sorts of players we have in the game. In fact, you could substitute the word “players” at either end of the line for many things. Amount of time spent playing, amount of time spent PvEing, training skills, chatting to people and so on. But where do roleplayers fit into this? This fabled species that I maintain can’t be easily categorised. Whereabouts are they?

Well, they’re all over the line, because all in all, almost everyone to some extent – to some definition – roleplays.

This of course simply imples that roleplaying is a diverse concept that cannot be simplified. The reason for this though is simple. Roleplaying is not “one thing”. It is not a static, simple dot that can be pointed at and described.

At first glance it could be considered more as a line (or vector) and a particular roleplayer could be anywhere on that line depending on their playing style.

Even more likely, is roleplaying is a series of different lines, and the qualities of the particular player’s roleplaying style could be defined by varies points on them all.

What makes it even more difficult, is that these lines now have to have a Z axis, because the location a roleplayer holds on any given line may change over time. The roleplayer may adapt their style depending on their company, or depending on what they’re doing.

I’ll have to stop trying to pin-point how we could map out roleplayer attributes before I end up straying into hyperspace and superstring theory at this rate.

Regardless, my premise with this initial discussion was simple. To illustrate that firstly, roleplayers may not make their own, positive qualities, to the detriment of other people. Roleplayers own “trust” and “friendship” and “respect” no more than anyone else does.

Also, let us nurture the seed of acknowledgement to different sorts of players. Let us remember that one person’s playing style is not “right”, that being “softcore” or “hardcore” (and I’m yet to believe that these words are any more than personal ego massaging) are simply perspectives; we all have a varied and ever-changing playing style that ebbs, flows, shifts and scatters as our mood and gaming takes us.

Let us move forward towards a better attitude of tolerance, understanding, and actually striving out the opportunities to challenge the “comfort zones” that we nestle in.

For one moment, let us not think of respect, tolerance, empathy, sharing… let us think of disregard, intolerance, selflessness, selfishness.

Do you show these qualities?

There is a great deal more we can discuss and consider to take forward our own, our friends, and our acquaintances gaming experiences. There is a great deal more we can do to extend the hand of friendship all through the roleplaying world we reside in. But it’s up to us to do it. The only thing that happens by itself is nothing.


I’m looking forward to discussing the different styles of roleplayer, how we can define them, how we can improve, how we can break down barriers between player styles, and maybe even get down to chatting about, why any of this is important.


For now, let us capture the thoughts here. Attitudes, values, manners. None of these are anything to do with our play style – they’re to do with us.


In time honoured fashion, I’m going to post this and then proof read it afterwards when I've got a cup of tea. As you can see, I’m a busy man.

Thank you to everyone who came along in search of treasure tonight; the turnout was astounding, so next time I'll push a touch harder to get a match for your abilities. I don't believe I've seen the foulest of undead creatures get dropped so quickly.

I must say I hope one in particular of your number is okay, I did notice one poor soul get knocked about by every dangerous creature that appeared and the chap must have been seeing stars by the end of the night.

If anyone at all cares to have a map they find sought out for its treasure, you can contact me at the Seraph Covian Goods workshop for a free escort to your treasure. I will happily aid you in locating the treasure, digging it up and help you deal with the evil critters all free of charge.

Was a pleasure to go out with the brave women and men of Cove.

*signed, Yolanda Seraph*

Thursday night is great. Level 4 maps have Demons, Ogre Lords, Lich Lords, Dread Spiders and Elder Gazers, so polish your armour

*points below*

Would be an honour!