Issues In BoC

[Me'an Silen]

Knowing: That Recruitment has become a Strain on the Role Play of Europa,

Questioning: Why Some Guilds have Let their Recruitment Standered drop HORRIBLY

   I am just another Simple member of Cove. ive been here for Awile and i joined due to those names of the people We know and love, Hoagie, Commander Raiden, Kelly Sanderson. Ah the Legends of Rp...  thats why i came to BoC i thought them to be strict Rpers. Firm Rules and a Strong Backbone to uphold them. and heck ya i love this guild thats why i speak up now.

  we have been recruiting some people that REALLY need help learning rp. Now i can put up with as much as the next guy. but the Resent actions are HORRIBLE Rp has been lost in a bloodlust Rawr known as Europa Rp i am Horrfied to see the Community allow NUMBERS  to become more important then the Skill or rp we put out to the community is this the Type of Rp we want to be known for? it is NOT the rp i want to be known for.

  We need to Repair our Reputation befor all hope of our guild is lost and we are no beter then pvpers who talk alot if we do not fix our RP then what is the point of our guild i Pleed to the command team to help resolve the issue and remember that its not about the numbers its about our RP skill.

I hope that the Guild can fix itself and put the recruits that need help with the Rp in line for if we cant i think ill have to take my rping to a town where it would be set to beter use

Your Freind and Fellow Gammer,
Me'an Silen

[Marcus Kobra]

Firstly,
ALL are accepted as long as their character meets criteria, irregardless of ability or experience.
SECONDLY,
Have you tried to offer friendly, polite, and professional advice without spamming the GC or Party Speak? A private conversation where everyone yelling over one another works rather well!
THIRD,
If you don't feel that you can approach the person then please PM a member of command or say anyone above Junior to assist you.

Note: You should strive to make the member feel welcome whilst teaching them and not putting them down and calling them rubbish.

Any further problems then feel free to contact myself first or as always a command member.

[Delfer]

First - Well, that's not right. Having a proper name doesn't make a good rp'er.. I don't know what's happened to the recruitment protocol but when I was BoC'd I had to the read the site rules and I was to be tested on it. This gave me the sense I might not be accepted, and I had to earn it. You're saying people can just walk in now?
Standards should be enforced.
 
Second - (I'll speak for myself here.) I know I've been polite and patient with some of the newer peoplez, I try to teach them, as I should. But frankly, it doesn't always work like you'd like it to. Now I'm not saying yelling at people over ICQ works any better, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that at all. I'm saying sometimes people don't get the message no matter what you do.


The point of Me'an's message was to bring this issue to everyone's attention I believe. It's been talked about privately on ICQ and in party.. But it's bigger than that in my opinion! When you let people into the system and they become war'd with other guilds and available to all kinds of resources and interaction, if they don't have a proper understanding of rp, they have the potential to cause a lot of trouble.

I strongly think newer members should be put through more OOC tests to see that they're fit to join the rp world. And that older members who need some help be made aware of their mistakes in a polite, gentle way, then taught how to correct them.


P.S - I don't want any of this to be taken as a rant or nothing! S' just what I feel about this issue and I'm not going to argue over small things, but I will defend my position because I do believe something should be done.

[Marcus Kobra]

If anyone would like to comment to my comments then please send a PM. Unecessary to turn this into an argument. I'll be more than happy to discuss anything that may be on your minds.

[Althalus]

this is a difficult one, in many ways i agree with everyone, yes there should be a period of poliet attempts to teach a bad rp'er how to be better and yes some people never learn so should be removed from the guild, but you have to give them a chance to learn, also more scrutiny may be requiered at the accepting into the guild stage, i dont know how much is done these days but to be honest i think the biggest problem is us.

we the established players should be setting the standard, leading by example but we dont, we have grenadiers runing around infront of the baracks "dueling" and when ordered, told, or sugested that they move it to the arena on the roof they have excuses why not to, we have watchmen backchating officers, juniors arguing with seniors, come on people this is an army that means you should respect the ranking system the same as you would in a real army, you can be freindly with an officer but never friends.  At the same time as a grenadier may not like a scout or an arcanest because they are in a different devision a junior grenadier would obey a regular or higher ranking scout or arcanest yet i have seen incedents of "your not my superior cos your in a different devision" IT DOESNT MATTER!!! a sergeant from the welsh ceramonial forces would still have to obey a luitenant from the scottish ceramonial devison if none of his own devision were around BECAUSE HE OUT RANKS HIM! this is basic milatery stuff folks.

My final words then, if we lead the way the recruits will follow but if we set a bad example what can we expect except more of the same? i will play my roles the best i can, how you play yours is up to you.

[Hoagie]

Since this is a thread that's discussing a problem, I really, really don't want it to descend into namecalling and finger pointing. I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread, and if it starts creating bad blood, I may have to delete posts or lock the thread or something. Keep discussion polite and constructive, as it has been so far.

When someone is not roleplaying well, it is much, much, much better to tutor than to scold. Of course, some people won't take criticism well, and if someone openly refuses to accept constructive criticism, you should inform a Command Member.

I shall say it again, it is better to tutor than to scold. What Althalus says is spot on. While it's command's job to hand out OOC warnings and discipline, if necessary, it's the guild as a whole's job to set a good example. As Gandhi said, "Be the change you want to see in the world".

There is never a good reason to get upset and insult another member. Without OOC respect for one another, the guild, or the community at large could fall apart, but it is okay to provide people with constructive criticism when they slip up. Just don't all pile on the poor sod at once.

[Linaeus]

I'd like to remind everyone that its rather unfair to classify all inexperienced or slow-learning RPers as terrible based on the actions of one or two. Some people are actively trying to cause troube, and some are just utterly clueless. Help them along as best you can. If that doesnt work, try harder. If they're belligerent OOC, point out the rules to them - if they continue they will be removed from the guild.

1. It's EVERYONE'S job, not just Command's, to enforce the rules IC and OOC, and to tutor and teach new recruits.

2. ANYONE can lead an event, and EVERYONE should. The guild should essentially be able to provide its own activty and largely maintain itself with only limited Command intervention. If Command has to run all of the events, set all of the trials, arrange all of the plots, administer all of the discipline, and so on, Command Gets Burnt Out And Does Not Want To Play The Game. We're stretched thin as it is - give us a hand here, folks.

3. Recruitment standards must be upheld. When you're recruiting, if you talk to someone whose character is obviously unacceptable (oddly colored elves, for instance, or people with stolen or poor RP names), make it clear to them that this is the case before you send them along to an officer for recruitment.

- Keres

[Kas Valentine]

I don't think anything is wrong with our shimmering recruitment policy, if we admit members who become a problem it's simply the nature of the beast. Sometimes you misjudge people who initially seemed promising (I'm completely speaking in general here mind you). I know a lot of the issues covered in this thread have been simmering for a long time. Issues such as no concern for rank, varying degrees of roleplay, abuse of guild chat, etc etc.

However I don't think we've had any major problems lately, at least no problems that can't be resolved by speaking diplomatically (as 'Keres, Hoagie and Kobra have already mentioned) and staying vigilant. We absolutely should not adjust our recruitment methods, they're fine the way the are. Sometimes you get trouble and sometimes you don't. We can't scan every prospective member with a Terminator style eye and have their attributes conveniently listed. Paitence and tolerance are all we can hope to rely on.

S'always best to encourage anyone having problems, whether it be shyness or overexuberance, they have to feel comfortable enough to grow. More importantly they have to feel comfortable enough to receive criticism. S'very hard to receive criticism from strangers, s'far easier to digest when it comes from new friends.

In a nutshell.....

Don't delay, enlist today !

Because we're Cove and we're beyond awesome.

[Railen Morana]

We leave behind banners with information on them in populated places where RPers and RPers to be and greifers all hang out. There will be people who apply who choose not to follow rules, or to greif, amusing themselves and not caring if it disrupts the roll play of others. Some of these folks can be taught, because they really do want to play with a group and just need to be taught basic social graces. Others dont give a rats arse. Ive seen it time and time again on several shards.

Shadowclan used to have a guildstone for "gruntees" with enough regular "grunts" on it to maintain control of the stone. (Gives you an idea how long Ive played. Ha!) All gruntees had to be sponsored by at least one grunt in good standing with the guild. Most had 2-3, and all undertook the discipline of said gruntee. (basicly, you were beat to death repeatedly and stripped of all your gear if you didnt follow orders of your higherups, such was orc life. Its more harsh than human army life to be sure!) It eased the work on directions, and Quality Control would speak with the trouble makers. You were given a warning, and if it had to be given more once on the same issue or more than twice for different issues you were booted. Period.  We have command. Guild members can act as grunts, taking folks aside and chatting politely in party to let them know they are taking it too far and to tone it down. Then we can give our reports on the situation to command. And yes, Command needs time to RP and have fun too or burnout occurs!

With the 'new" guild features, I beleive there are different classifications- its been a while since I looked at it. I dont think a trainee guild is needed, just a title that would let other players know OOC that this person is in training so they can report to gms about any issues, or...any kudos they deserve!

I was taught at a management training seminar not all too long ago
10% of your workforce will be your leaders, like shepherds. 90% will be your sheep, or basic do what they need to do workers who are reliable and get the job done. 10% will be your wolves, the people who will cause issues and be a thorn in your side. There will always be a bottom 10%. The trick is, dont let the bottom 10% get ahold of your sheep.

BAAAAAHHHHHH....*gets out knife* OOOH Bandages!!!

[Aliryl]

Those numbers don't add up..

As Keres mentioned earlier if you are bringing in a recruit please be sure they understand the rules, read the website, know where the forums are etc.  And please make sure ML elves are not blue/green/purple.  Its makes things very difficult for us to say sorry you can't join when someone has already said yes come along, someone will guild you.

I'm also getting fed up of people not understanding or knowing the guild rules and ROE.  Its up to you lot to read them and keep yourselves up to date when changes are posted. 

[Raiden Morana]

I just like to clarify a few points chaps.

BoC's recruitment policy has in no way slackened. The same tests are there as they have always been to be used on prospective new members to make them aware of certain rules and give them a general feel for things in Cove before they are signed up.

One of the core values and something that BoC has always been very proud of is that we strive to offer the best roleplaying experience to players whether they be novices or seasoned veterans and that our existing members have and i hope will continue to help fellow members along who are perhaps new to or struggle a little with the low fantasy brand of roleplay we promote in Cove.

Just as in all facets of life though there are going to be people who struggle or who don't want to learn or think they know better and it's all of our jobs to try to help these people as much as we can IC and OOC in a polite manner. However there may be parting of the ways if roleplay/behaviour standards expected of members of BoC are not upheld to a satisfactory level.

There are numerous posts and guides on the forums regarding roleplay and acceptable behaviour so please all take the time to read them over and help your fellow members along if they need guidance or try and take some of the suggestions and tips onboard yourselves if you feel you are in any way struggling to adapt or fit into BoC.

As always the Command Team and myself are he to answer any queries anyone may have.

Cheers,

Raiden.