A rant

[Railen Morana]

Ok. When I came to Cove, there were standards we ALL had to follow. Rules that are posted here on this very board.

I had a character who is a healer...and a former Knight of Virtue...wore armor...trained horses... all documented in character and I was not allowed to wear certain clothes, ride horses, wear armor...any of that without being told I was breaking a law and catching it over ICQ. Even with a documented history and being married to a Nobleman...Maddy had to give up ALL of the things she did before she came to Cove except her healing and making arrows to not be arrested for breaking the laws. Even though it made NO in character sense, I followed the rules.

Now...everyone has long conversations in guild chat instead of partying up, NO ONE follows the rules for citizens, people aren't holding events and earning shillings.

Im beginning to feel as if there's a major double standard going on. Or that no one gives a hoot any more. Maybe there's just not enough command staff to enforce the rules. But the quality of this guild has plummeted because of it.

Dont get me wrong. I adore our new folks.  I Love love love the sense of humor. Its just I think we are allowing the quality of our RP to slip BIG TIME. Cove is turning into a fantasy guild. I expect soon we will be over run with sparkly faeries and people who are half dragon half succubi wielding purple magic staffs of uberL33Tness.

Thank goodness for the brotherhood. And Thank you Kiran for running a tight ship quality wise.

Im writing this not to play the blame game, or make anyone feel bad, but come on guys. You joined a guild with specific requirements posted. Can we please put just a little effort into followin em?

 and Yeah...feel free to hold me to the same standards. *Nod nod*

Rant over.

[Marcus Kobra]

I am guilty of rule breaking on occasion, but ditto. I guild chat alot, but as for the rest of the rules, I follow them, and it was that addherance that made me a former Command Team Member, a member of Coves church, The Twilight Legion (the character never saw much light) and now I am a part of the brotherhood. These "extra" communities embodied our rules of conduct and character class/rank guidlines. I am not asking it to be like Nazi Germany here, I don't expect all guild chat to cease (it tends to be humorous) and I don't think everyone should wear grey clothes and moan in pain all the time either. But I did walk away from Europa about a year ago because of getting told "You can't do that" then watching a person go by and do the exact thing I did. I might ask them about it and get told " Command member so and so told me" asking that person I would get a response similar to "Not like it hurts anything much"

Now granted the rules have been recently updated, thanks to Hoagie. I suggest you all read them, and if you are a civilian and do not know the guidlines they can be found here:

http://cove.sugeworld.com/forum/index.php/board,43.0.html
That leads to the Civilian rules sections, read the posts if you do not know.

Thank you and that is all.

- Marcus Kobra, Regular Guardsman/ Maccen Korten, Commoner

[Railen Morana]

Yeah, I'm guilty of breakin' the rules and such too on occasion, and I grumble when I'm corrected, but I listen because they were put there for a reason. Well thought out they were! And, we have such a fantastic group of roll players right now. I dont want to discourage/stifle creativity. Quite the opposite.

I don't have the time IRL to be part of the command team. It would take away the little time I have to play. I also don't want to take away anyone's enjoyment of the game. Id just like to see a little effort into upholding Covian traditions.

[Kelly Sanderson]

Oops. Guild Chat rulebreak might have something to do with me... Due to forgetting as I haven't been here for a while. Sorry! I'll cut it out.

[Hoagie]

Hey guys.

My name's Hoagie, and I'm an addict I have been nattering too much in guildchat. However, I think one of my biggest failure has been the failure to enforce rules. Partly, it's because up until getting elected as Steward with Leso, for the limited amount of time until someone assassinates him, I've never been deeply involved with the civilian element of the guild.

Regarding the rules laid out for the citizen element, I don't think that they're perfect. In fact, I think they're probably in need of a some reform (a matter which I'm happy to discuss with anyone on ICQ). However, as Railen rightly points out, it's not fair for one person to follow the rules and restrict their character, while others ignore them, and go straight for the perks. Most of all, it's not fair for me to be lax in rule enforcement because I've had a long day and don't want the drama, or whatever miserable excuse I come up with at the time.

Noone wants to roleplay a hobo for a thousand years before they can pay for the right to wear anything more that a potato sack with holes cut out for the legs, but I don't think our rules are unreasonable given the setting of the guild. It's the "Baronship of Cove", not the "Guild of Overdressed Fops, Britain Branch".

I'll do my part if you all do yours.

[Delfer]

When I was reading this I definitely didn't see guildchat as the main issue.
I agree with Railen that things aren't the same as they were. I remember when I joined, I actually did read all the rules and answered the questions. I don't know if that's protocol anymore, or if that's the problem but I liked it. Because it gave the guild just enough seriousness to new members.

And I see similar issues with the military aspect too, it's been going on for a while, and I'm not the best at discipline either. But still. The army isn't an army now, it's an episode of Big Brother or something. No one trusts each other IC and it's because of lack of discipline in the army as a whole. When I was a recruit I was afraid of being insubordinate thanks to Command members like Kelly and Graem who were awesome. But now there's no fear of officers, and everyone is "Cuddly Hoagles" or "Retarded Buttons" or "Keres"


I for one think that like Railen, everyone joining the guild whether new to rp completely, or from another guild, no matter how well known they are there, should be subject to the rules IC and OOC of every other new member. And that people should know their place. The awesome backstory fight the power uncontrollable rebel is the most over-used character to play, btw.

[Railen Morana]

I really don't think any one person is to blame, but all of us. Myself included. I chat in guild chat too much too. I have worn pretty clothing that was "above my station" too. There was a period of adjustment I had to make coming from more fantasy based RP shards to Europa. Also, some of the new folks may not realize we have all these rules to follow. I didn't thoroughly read through them when I first joined until it was pointed out. In our zeal to recruit some of our awesome new RPers, this could have been overlooked.

Perhaps for the clothing, instead of it being "forbidden" for the lower classes, they should pay a tax. Someone like Mizuho, for example, who runs the goblin, has great cooking and dyers making skills and was married to a Knight could be allowed to wear finery... but Icily has to pay an extra tax for it monthly (Would give some of the taxmen something to do too!)- There's actual RL historical for that. During the renaissance if one wore a ring, they would have to afford a luxury tax. That was the basis for the citizen rules I do believe. And yes, the rules could be revamped.

I also don't want to make it more of a hassle for our already overworked, understaffed and under appreciated command folks. Burn out happens all to easily. No one wants to be the drill sergeant all the time. Most of us in the guild are adults. The ones that aren't yet have the maturity to be responsible. The quality of people we have is superb. Its great seeing people returning. Really, this is a pretty awesome guild and group of people.

[Sergio]

Yeah, I have a thing for talking in GC and some days I can't for the life of me hit the right slash key for some reason even when I know I'm trying to hit the party chat key.  I also came from a more fantasy oriented shard although I never actually played anything but a human not even an elf.  I did look at the RoE upon joining although I should probably look again.  I have avoided citizenry mainly because I like killing things and the thought of building up another crafter makes me cry, but I'd play a hobo with pension of not wearing pant (A regular Willy Bugle) and sitting on random things, but I'm trying not to make so many characters that some get ignored and I'm already failing a bit by playing Sergio most of the time.

[Leanne Martin]

I may be guilty a bit too for the lack of discipline. Beside Ilyana, which is respectful to commanders but open-minded to close friends and throwing fireball at undisciplined soldiers, I only have two characters in BoC, and those are not getting seen much, tho each of them have their own personality and what so not.

Errr, where was I? Ah yeah! Playing only for keeping up the RP is a bit lame IMO (Or did anyone of you actually seen ever a firethrowing man in medival books?). UO is a game after all, so there should be lots of fun in it, which I think we have right now. Don't get me wrong, there can be too much of fun, like getting way to OOC while IC, like Brenna sometimes with Keres (don't get me wrong dear, I love you ^^). Usually recruits didn't have their heads for much longer when they'd do such things to a Commander.

The civilian thingy. Yes, I think too, it should be revamped. Also with Penny gone, the civilian system died actually, and many civilians do whatever they want (My crafter is there no exception, wearing leather armor without earned shillings for it). I think beside the re-arranging the system, there should also be like two Civi-"commanders", overviewing the whole thing.

About the GC... Well, if the people are like miles away from each other but have to discuss something and can't party, why not talking over GC? The GC is there for something.


Gosh... Now I was reading my lines for like ten minutes over and over and totally lost what I actually tried to say... I hope you get it, as I don't. *coughs*

[Marcus Kobra]

Aye, I don't mean to place the blamed game, and no GC is not an and has never really been an issue, Usually if asked to CEASE then cease it does. We all have that general level of respect. GC is just a very easy infraction to point out. I'm pretty certain I wear armour on Maccen thats a level over his station, though I moderated it some. . and fully expect the guards to shake him down should they notice lol. Which actually I think its my history with the guild that has allowd me to get away with that for so long. . . Its not favorites so much as I am trusted far too much. . If you understand waht I mean. I mean some folks are not policed as tightly because in the past we either showed restraint, or did something for the guild. Its not that we get ignored so much as we are trusted beyond reproach.  If i continue to get more involved. . IF, I'll see to helping the Civilian system what I was planning on doing shortly before my break. And Hoagie I am more than happy to chat with you about it on ICQ, just hit me up. And yes Keres I will lsiten to most anything you have to say (despite whatever I said previously)

We all share an equal amount of blame, if we all help each other, and mute our flamboyance abit without being creatans about it we should find a harmony that preserves fun AND the BoC tradition of low fantasy.

[Linaeus]

This sort of thread is massively verboten, and had I seen it earlier I'd have had it removed. 

But, that said, it does raise a number of valid points which I'll address as soon as I'm finished being on holiday at the beach.

[Celuvian]

GC can/should be restricted during events....to prevent the...preventing of good rp that an active GC ...prevents during an event. 

Its nice to know the members on an OOC level too, and GC offers that kind of easy going conversation that ICQ does not (imo). I like chatting with Bersi or Ilyana or Kal or whoever on a totally casual level on GC when not doing something IC "important". Me personally I like knowing someone OOC aswell as IC.

Restrict GC completely and youd be taking away a pleasure for me. Just my two scents.

I like logging on even if no events are happening, because I can always start a nice trivial conversation with whoevers online on GC while waiting for an event to start, or while waiting on the next diaper change I have to do.

[Hoagie]

Right, chaps and chapesses. I'm locking this thread, because I feel that largely, all points have been made, and there's not much to add. When discussing issues like this, it's difficult to keep it objective, and I don't want to see things degenerate into name-calling and blame placing, so apologies to Railen for the thread lock, but I feel this should end on a high note.

I think we can all take something from this, though. From the responses in the thread, it seems that everyone cares about maintaining the high standard of the guild, and if it can be said that the standard has slipped, then everyone can play a part in raising it to new heights.

Feel free to get in touch on ICQ with any issues, ideas, complaints, asking the time of day, or just wanting a chit chat.

Ta.