A Note on Roleplaying

[Veldrin]

Lately we've been getting a lot of new recruits. A few recruits have even ascended through the ranks. I'm sure many have noticed that al ot of them seem... new to the concept of realistic roleplaying. There is more to interacting with BoC other than emoting a cough and shouting orders. Guys, we need to put a little effort into our roleplay to make it enjoyable for everyone. There is a difference between...

"Ey Tom! Haven't seen ye fer ages! How's the wife!"
"umm shes good how are you"

And...

"Ey Tom! Haven't seen ye fer ages! How's the wife!"
"None o' yer business, you bug-eyed rascal! Get outta here a'fore I call a guard!" *shakes a fist*

Now, grammar isn't a huge issue. I mean, I'm not going to pick on someone for not knowing how to spell something or forgetting an apostrophe here and there. But can we at least make our typing look a little decent? Capitalize the first letter of a sentence. Use commas or periods to indicate a break in speech. People are more likely to take you seriously if you say, "Um... she's.. good. How are you?" rather than "umm shes good how are you." God, it's so much NICER to roleplay with someone who takes the effort to at least sound intelligent. When people are talking in all lowercase without any punctuation, it really gets me down and I don't even feel like roleplaying.

A really big part in roleplaying is... well, ROLEplaying. You have to pretend that everything is real and everything affects you. I mean, I'd get so irritated if someone came up to me and said...

"ma'am can u help me i need to kill a dragon by the church"

Come on! Where's your emotion? That isn't roleplaying at all!

"Veldrin! Junior Veldrin, ma'am! Come quickly!" *runs up to her, leaning over and panting*
*turns around, eyeing the man* "Vhat is it, recruit?"
"A.. a dragon! By the church! Someone is going to get hurt!"
"Vhat?! Don't just stand zhere, recruit! Help me kill it!"
*pales slightly* "Er... yes! Kill it! Right away!" *gulps*

Do you see the difference? Fear, emotion, shock. THAT is roleplaying. Do you see the difference? It wouldn't kill anyone to put a little more effort in roleplaying. I will avoid mentioning names here, but I am mostly referring to most of the new members. I am getting really annoyed lately with the lack of quality a lot of you new members put into your roleplaying ability.

And there's another thing. Emoting. There IS an option to emote. You type a semicolon (, and then a space, and then write what you want to do as an action. I have seen a lot of "*coughs8" typos. Using the emote option IS a way to avoid that. I'm not saying you have to use it. Some of the older members type asterisks around their speech to emote. And one exception would be talking and emoting at the same time. I do it. "There's a... *cough* ...man at the door."

And oh, don't get me started on typos. If you make a typo while talking, and don't feel bad, everyone does it, only correct if if you think it's unreadable. There is a note somewhere else on this, but I feel it needs to be brought up again.

"I brought a receuit sir."
"*recruit"

Come on, don't correct typos with a star like that! It isn't roleplaying.

"I brought a receuit, sir."
*cough* "Err.. I mean, recruit."

That's acceptable. But I've also seen people doing that and failing.

"I brought a receuit."
"cough"

Where's the effort! Sometimes, I don't even correct typos unless someone acknowledges it in character. If you spelled it wrong but people can still tell what you said, leave it be!

One MORE thing. When you die in game, IT ISN'T DYING. It's getting knocked un conscious. When you ressurect someone, it's helping them up. So don't ask if someone can res or ressurect. Ask someone to help you help somebody to his feet. Roleplay.

Putting effort into your roleplay and into your text makes it much, much enjoyable for others. Helping create a pleasant environment will really go a long way.

[Shadwell]

Hear hear! Some excellent points. Especially the part about the PUNCTUATION.

It makes you look better. And us as a guild! 

"for cove!!"

"For Cove!!!"

[Cambylobacter]

"Ey Tom! Haven't seen ye fer ages! How's the wife!"
"umm shes good how are you"

And...

"Ey Tom! Haven't seen ye fer ages! How's the wife!"
"None o' yer business, you bug-eyed rascal! Get outta here a'fore I call a guard!" *shakes a fist*

To be honest, the first example is so much better than the second. The second one is like some sort of Monty Python caricature, something that is far too easy for roleplayers to fall into.

Instead of truly adopting a role, people fall into a form of Auto-pilot, and the second example is an illustration of exactly that.

Whilst the first example could use a touch of punctuation, it is a far more realistic and earthy response, rather than the easy to do "caricature+emote" autopilot that many people do.

Roleplaying isn't action, it's not measured by the extravagance of your ability to put verbs inside of a pair of asterisks and your characters are not a hybrid of Monty Python and Village idiots. They are real people, as real as you or I. 99% of your dialogue should probably be quite boring, and the other 1 percent even more boring still. Unless we want to put our hands up and admit, we're living in a caricature, then we need to stop speaking like we're living in one.

The problem I have, is many people really do live in a caricature, and much of the dialogue that goes on, really wouldn't be out of place in a Monty Python movie.

The problem is of course exacerbated by the way we live in Sosaria, with many people actively roleplaying in the world whilst trying to pretend the vast majority of it doesn't exist. Coupled with the paradoxes that exist, such as the endless battles, conflicts and actions with few consequences and no one ever dying, it is clearly a lot for new people to roleplaying to take in.

I'd simply say, that people new to the playstyle, should try and be as boring as possible. Resist the temptation for hyperbole, resist the temptation to over dramatise, please don't emote at every given opportunity, and do try and impart information in the way you type out your character's dialogue.

One MORE thing. When you die in game, IT ISN'T DYING. It's getting knocked un conscious. When you ressurect someone, it's helping them up. So don't ask if someone can res or ressurect. Ask someone to help you help somebody to his feet. Roleplay.

Don;t get me started on that. Its the worst concept in roleplaying today and isnt roleplaying in the slightest.

What on earth is the point of the battles and conflicts in this world? We hear the rallying cries to battle, and the eulogies of the brave warriors. Are we having a laugh? If I spoke to a soldier in the militia, or in Kaldor or in whoever, are we to believe that in every battle, people are simply knocked out? That's absolutely absurd, and insulting to be called roleplay.

The problem is, we live in a world were we want actions, but no consequences. We live in a world of magic, a world of mystery and dangers. Everyone except for a small percentage of people accept that resurrection is a basic concept in the world we play in. How easy would it be for us all to accept that in battles, people die, suffer the pain of death, and in some circumstances can be brought back to life. The roleplaying potential and agonies of going through such a process are aplenty. But no. Instead, in every battle, people are knocked out with flamestrikes. People are knocked out with poisoned daggers. People are knocked out by a vicious Morning Star, and people are knocked out with Halberds and Broadswords. And they call that roleplaying.

[Veldrin]

To be honest, the first example is so much better than the second. The second one is like some sort of Monty Python caricature, something that is far too easy for roleplayers to fall into.

The second example was simply that: An example. I'm not saying that's how you should react if someone asks about your wife, but it's better than not reacting at all. The point I'm trying to make is that people don't adapt to a personality enough. A lot of the new roleplayers don't play characters - they play themselves. If someone makes them mad, their character gets mad. If something makes the player happy, the character gets happy. That isn't roleplaying. That's putting yourself into the UO world and pretending it's you. Which is a good start, don't get me wrong. But playing roles, that is something I admire whenever I see it. Someone playing a character of their creation. A character with thoughts and emotions and feelings, all portrayed whether the player him or herself is feeling those emotions or not. The character doesn't have to be so different from the person, but as long as it's roleplaying and not chatting.

The first example is supposed to be of someone who doesn't really get what the first person is saying. It would be nice if the player understood what was being implied, and then had his character be clueless. And that can be portrayed.

"How's yer wife?"
*scratches head* "She's all right, and you?"

I see what you're saying, about playing a boring character. It IS realistic. But roleplay isn't always about realism. I try to be true to my character. Completely. She isn't me, she's herself. As real as I can make her. I'm guessing what you're trying to say is not react too much? I see what you mean about boring, realistic roleplay... but what makes it interesting if you roleplay boring characters? Or do you mean trying not to be some lost heir to a rich kingdom or a half-demon or some attention-getting character? Though... boring roleplay DOES make a more realistic environment for everyone else to enjoy. With my thief character, I was poised in a tavern, waiting for a rich-looking fellow to finish chatting with his fiance. They were droning on and having the most BORING conversation. It was glorious how frustrated my character got. It was a scene straight from a book or movie.

However, that's getting into more advanced roleplay, a bit, and I'm talking about the basics.

About the dying... which do you think is more realistic... A world where it's hard to kill someone or a world where everyone dies all the time and gets resurrected? When one DOES get killed in game, it would be nice if they roleplayed being very injured afterward instead of dismissing it like so many, including me, do. I do understand what you're saying, but do you really want us to eliminate our characters every time we die in a battle with Kaldor?

Roleplay doesn't have to be COMPLETELY realistic. It IS a game, and shortcuts will be made when they're needed. That's why people roleplay - to get into a world different than they're own, that is also easier to survive in.

What I like about the IC interpretation about UO death is that someone dying is really something tragic. And someone being brought back to life is horrific and terrifying. Like it should be. Not, "Oh, another vampire." I've seen a lot of people in trinsic roleplaying incubi and succubi and vampires and it annoys me to see being undead not taken seriously.

But again, those are really just details for someone who better understands the concept.

[Jessica Fortus]

Sorry to butt in...again. This is a good thread, though if it was posted in f4gnet, it'd just turn into another huge loggerheads argument, which would get quite rightly mocked. Anyway.

I've seen a lot of people in trinsic roleplaying incubi and succubi and vampires and it annoys me to see being undead not taken seriously.

Right. Succubi and incubi are not undead. Recently I've seen one succubus and one incubus in Trin. And it was utterly pathetic. The incubus was some guy (was originally unguilded, now in a guild which I susepct he set up himself) who sat around in a true black hat and neon white robe, saying he was highly attractive, yet a daemon with massive wings and horrible eyes, claws, teeth etc. Who could control your mind and read your thoughts. And fly. And create fear in mortals/ I mean, come on! Such a character is the ultimate is bad roleplay and a walking, talking super-power-emote. Just because I write it in my profile does nto mean I take on godly powers. I'm not gonna think 'Mh, if Jess had a fire elemental in her lineage, I'd be immune to fire spells! And then no mage can kill me! LOL how much will that pwn! I'd better edit my profile!' So those two - not to be taken seriously imo.
But undead, yes. However, it's the nature of vampire both that A: they do not become raised after their death, but that the process of becoming vampiric kills them, so it's not horrifying to some in that sense, and B: that they look human, don't smell bad or rot, have slightly more control over humans than average, and generally are devious, non-your-bog-standard-undead creatures. Then again, under Kaldorian religion, all undead of any kind are seen as spawn of Xathos (The most 'evil' kaldorian god, the disgraced God of death), and generally destroyed with extreme prejudice by Kaldorians in general and Raza followers in particular. Cal, especially, has even more dislike for the undead. (For this reason, we attacked V^S transformed into liches during a recent street battle, but no-one else, and we ended up being thrown out of Magincia many a time for attacking the vampires there).

Onto being 'Knocked out'. Camby's idea is an 'in a perfect world...' thing, whereas Veldrin's is a 'right now...'. If you're killed, you don't die. Because it would suck. Not to mention the fact that UO death is kind of as a game balance idea, because if we look at things realistically, a single arrow could easily kill you irl, as could a single thrust from a dagger. But 1h kills - awful in a computer game. And on the other side, it's entirely possible to survive horrific injuries, such as a bullet to the head.
Some roleplayers like to imagine that in large-scale battles, there are more than, say, the 20 Kaldorians and five samurai that call themselves the army, and more than 20 Yewmen, and more than 20 Vesperians, and more than 20 Covians. So they put down that more people entered the battle (anonymous NPCs), and that they did not survive. I don't really like this idea - I think that, since our UO world is at such a remove from the real one, it's easy to accept (and far less complicated) that there are only 20 men in the Kaldor attack force, and that the city of Trinsic has only maybe 100 inhabitants. It's not like there's more than about 20 houses in the entire city afterall. It's a much smaller-scale world.

So to be knocked out. Works fine. Real-world realism can go to hell, because if I can heal critical injuries by praying, Ahn Mi Sah Ko, or by casting In Vas Mani, or Obsu Vulni, or whatever, in battle, then I'm just as likely to be able to heal critical injuries outside of battle. And rarely do we have a true battle, again because of numbers. Skirmishes. And being knocked out, alright, fine workaround. Keep it, sorry Camby.
But do, if you wish, roleplay being injured. Most members of A^K do this to a degree, though some generally roleplay minor injuries, the sort that can be tended to in the thirty minutes that they have out of action. Others have, in some circumstances, roleplayed horrific wounds, of just the sort that would result from being taken down in a battle. Though they'd probably kill someone in mediaeval times, who cares, it's a magical world. We used a potion of healing to help the work. But yes, we still spent three hours checking Cal over, bandaging and soaking up blood, then operating on an abdominal wound and cauterising it with hot steel. Nasty stuff. Of course, we could just take her to Tel'Mar, where they have their pool of healing. But I frown upon that as a general rule, seems too much like 'glowy hands' healing. Which, interestingly enough, a former cleric of A^K had. Until he got killed...

[Cambylobacter]

I accept the majority tenet that realism is tempered to facilitate gameplay. The underlying problem is the lack of "In Character Actions = In Character Consequences", one of the fundamentally most important facets of roleplaying.

As it stands there are no consequences for losing battles, losing conflicts and partaking in PvP. It genuinely, doesn't matter. In real terms, PvP is done for the sake of PvP, and no other reason. There is no impact. There is no fear, no possible loss, nothing. There is an endless cycle of PvP, coupled with chronic short term memory loss.

Some months ago Tweeso swindled Camby out of 150,000 gold pieces. Personally, she'd want him dead, but that's not possible. There are no consequences to anything and people can do what they want with impunity.

One day a guild attacks an area, and weeks later it's all forgotten. Alliances change and relations shift with the wind, and underlying this there is an absolute absence of fear and caution.

If we could in any way reclaim a true sense of danger, a true feeling of consequences for the actions we undertake, that would be my ideal, but unfortunately I am, and always have been in the vast minority in this. It's the primary reason I've never involved myself in rp PvP, because it feels too much like a suspenion of roleplaying to me. It feels more like an excuse for safe PvP.

The roleplaying community will never adopt a more hardcore approach to PvP, and I accept that. I believe fervently however, that the vast majority of roleplaying that happens today isn't roleplaying, but a shadow of a reflection of roleplaying, accepted and enforced through years of conditioning and second nature. Too much of what happens is caricature.

I have no doubt that the roleplaying society in which we partake is a lot of fun. I have no reason to believe it cannot go on to a stronger and more robust future, but equally so, I imagine if we had a blank slate, and could create a society from scratch, so much more could be done. However, that won't happen, and the concepts in which we roleplay are forever etched into the subconciousness of the society.

The truth of the matter, is that many of the guides and tips for roleplay given are specious. Success to roleplaying in the community is not about your ability to develop your character, nor is it in understanding your characters agendas and feelings. It is not in taking consequences for your characters actions nor is it in being with your character as they deal with the stresses and dangers of the life they lead. Success is in learning the rules and conventions in which the roleplaying community operates. I believe any rules and conventions should be there to support the basic principles of roleplay. As it is, instead, in the main they serve to promote more fun PvP and less opportunities for "unfairness" that may be more realistic, but would arguably be less fun for the player behind the character.

Naturally, I admit that much of what I say is suited to a perfect community scenario, but really, I can only think of two rules that I would probably enforce in an ideal world. One would be no insurance, and the other would be permadeath in PvP. Other than that, roleplay would cover everything else. Then people would understand danger, fear and suspense. Then we'd have "In character actions = In character consequences" and then we'd have a real world to live and die in.

But, that's not the "sort" of roleplaying the majority of people want.

[Cal Soulshadow]

Interesting thread.

The trouble with permadeath is that it is very easy to die in PvP, even for a highly-skilled character who has taken months, even years, to train. UO is simply not designed with permadeath in mind.
In a realistic world, Kaldor (or Cove, or any army) would have hundreds of grunts who would go into battle, leaving the commander and general (or baron, or whatever Cove has) to direct the battle from relative safety behind the front line. But since this is UO, battles are more likely to be 10-15 a side skirmishes, and the officers have to muck in.
The UO world is not realistic. Thus, enforcing permadeath would only put people off roleplaying.

However, I do understand where you're coming from. Take the Barandth case recently. Barandth used to be grandmaster of the Trinsic paladins. Then he was seduced by a vampire and fell in love with her. He was rejected by Trinsic and after coming close to death following an attack by a daemon (Raide), they left him to die.
Cal took him back to Strongholt to recuperate, where she discovered he had Kaldorian blood. He is the adopted son of Arcain, but his real father was a Kaldorian who had settled near Minoc.
She gave him a place in the army, but made it clear that he should not persue the relationship with the vampire. (As Jess said, Cal has a particular hatred of the undead).
He did anyway, and let her turn him. Cal saw this as a terrible betrayal...not only did he fail to keep his promise, but he also corrupted his Kaldorian blood by allowing himself to be turned into a vampire, then attempted to lie about it.
He should have been executed. IC it makes no sense for Cal or any Kaldorian to let him live. But he decided he didn't want to kill off the character, which left us with a half-finished scenario and no closure.

Now, I am against permadeath in battle, unless someone actually wants to kill off a character. But in larger terms, then perhaps it should be something that happens if you do pursue a certain course of actions, such as betraying your nation, or becoming a serial killer, and so forth.
However, it has to be optional...the player pays the monthly fee and puts the time into developing their characters so it really shouldn't be up to anyone else to tell them when that character must die.

So, what about battles? Over the course of a war, it makes no sense that an army continues to be daisy fresh. They should get injuries, they should get battle weary, perhaps demoralised, and so forth.
If someone clobbers you with an axe and you're wearing leather, it's going to leave a mark. Perhaps it breaks your arm and you can't wield two-handed weapons for a month. Or perhaps you get an arrow in the thigh and can't run for a few weeks, but can only move at a walk.
Maybe you take a serious head wound from being bashed with a mace, and drop 10 points of intelligence.

Things like this add realism, and they have consequences which may be detrimental to your character, but don't stop your roleplaying them. And as Jess said, RPing injuries, or healing the injuries, can be fun!

[Octiovus]

Damn Kaldorians, invading our boards now.

[Veldrin]

The entire idea of this thread has been shattered by discussion on the fine points of roleplaying. That was not my intention.

My problem is that too few of the new BoC members actually know how to decently roleplay. Someone was sitting in the guildhouse in a death robe. "What happened to you?" "an ork bomber killed me." Correcting things like THAT was the idea of this thread, because being nice and ignoring bad roleplay when we see it doesn't seem to help anything. But as this thread has been commandeered by intellectual debate on the elements of roleplay, which I note is far better than it turning into mindless spam, you people can do with it what you will. I'll continue being annoyed by "newbies."

[Veldrin]

He should have been executed. IC it makes no sense for Cal or any Kaldorian to let him live. But he decided he didn't want to kill off the character, which left us with a half-finished scenario and no closure.

That is a special case. And I completely understand not wanting to kill of his character. It's unfair. Roleplay is roleplay but having to pull your character out of roleplay doesn't make it fun. Instead, perhaps, he could have gone into hiding, or some other safe alternative like that. There should be alternatives to dying to keep roleplay fun and interesting.

Recently my character journeyed into the Solen Hive. She was hit by acid I think once or twice. For a few days afterward I roleplayed her coddling her arm but hiding it from others. She suffered a severe acid burn that only one person found out about IC.

About wars and battles... just because no one dies doesn't mean no one can win. If you're in a fight with someone, one to one, do you keep fighting until one of you dies? Or until one of you has taken too much of a beating to stand on his own two feet? When so many people are injured in a battle, they retreat, or sulk away in defeat. The army is crippled and must draw back to recooperate. That's at least somewhat realistic, rather than declaring that ICly, someone should be dead.

I really have no desire to argue what's right and wrong about roleplay. I think my roleplay ability is adequate. I roleplay as realistically as possible and try to keep from power-emoting, ignoring injuries, and the lot of things like that. Just yesterday my Thief character robbed a Magincian. I had him at dagger point. The Magincian pulled out a conflageration potion. And while I question the idea of carrying around a hand grenade to repel bandits, and while I KNEW the conflageration potion wouldn't even hurt me in game, my character became afriad. The person I was robbing was left unharmed and escaped. My thief was left frustrated.

Later, I appeared behind a mage and put my dagger to his back, making some dark threat. Instead of being afraid and freezing. He instantly began fighting me and casting spells, rather than being clever and talking his way out of letting my guard down or something like that. That annoyed me.

One hit kills would definitely be something, but they'd have to be roleplayed and thusly acknowledged.

This is a closing sentence for my post since I can't think of a good way to end it!

[Calico]

Basicaly make up a character, get in it's head, learn what makes them tic, then play that character and be true to it.

It can be a characture and still have deapth, it can be true to life and simple, and still have deapth.

Listen more than you speak if you are new to the idea or Role Play, and learn from those around you.  Even if your not entierly new to rp, but just in adiffrent place.

An intresting thread...