Citizen's Millitia

[Bayne]

That's your opinion Drachir and i'll respect that, though I disagree in every aspect of what you're saying. If something isn't done for the citizenship then it will just be a place for alt crafters and nothing more. Millitias were formed all over the place in times of war right through the dark ages from our own history, which is the period UO is mainly based on. Their purpose was to help the Army in all aspects not just fighting which seems to me what you think it will be; just another add on to the army that citizens can go into. The Citizen's millitia will not be anything like the main army, fighting will only be a small part of its role.

Regardless if you're so set against bringing the Citizens more into view then nobody is asking you or anybody else for that matter to help I want to see this happen so I don't mind taking sole responsibility of making it so

[Kazuo Shinrai]

Must say I like the idea but I agree also that some citizens would not fight.
Kazuo for instance would under no circumstances ever join the militia, he'd be busy fortifying his ass and bribing his way to safety if war ever broke out. The idea of engineers however, heh, I wub it! We need more crate builders tbh! Perhaps even people who specialize in building forts and barricades. Perhaps even make it mandatory that when we launch a field campaign (such as a raid on Stonekeep) that we set up camp somewhere and bring at least 1 healer or engineer or the raid is a no go. Perhaps bring additional civvies who can do other jobs. If the shilling system is still in place, then why not reward them for it as well?

Also, why not organize mining expeditions to more dangerous places. G'wan, have a smith mine for valorite in some dragon's lair (such as Hythloth) and make it the military's job to protect him. Plenty of possibilities.

As for pvp, well, Kazuo has not ever fought in his entire civvy carreer. Sure, at times some people have been foolish enough to assault him but Kazuo generally outwitted them and high tailed it out of there. At other times the poor buggers who attempted to rob him got struck down by the assassins who are usually at Kazuo's side, hidden in the shadows. I don't need pvp and I don't miss it when playing Kazuo as there is so much other stuff to do!

[Kazuo Shinrai]

Here's an idea :

Hunt - no civvies needed
Exploring - bring 1 cartographor type civvy

Trade visit - bring 1 merchant type civvy
Diplomatic visit - bring at least 1 upperclass, 1 merchant type civvy

Assault (raid) - bring at least 1 engineer, 1 healer type civvy
Siege - bring at least 2 engineers, 1 healer, 1 crafter type civvy

Field campaign - bring at least 1 engineer, 1 healer, 1 cartographor type civvy
Long lasting field campaign - bring at least 1 engineer, 2 healers, 1 cartographor, 1 hunter type civvy

Just an idea really but this makes the military actually NEED civvies.

[Bayne]

Kazuo some good ideas but the Citizens won't need the aid of the army to run events with the creation of this new Millitia. They will be a seperate group whilst at the same time supporting the army. If a smith needed to go somewhere dangerous to mine expensive ore then the Millitia would be equipped and proficient to safe guard him without needing army assistance. The same if a fisherman wanted to to fish in dangerous water then the millitia could accompany him on a boat to deal with any vicious serpents etc. Joint duties and hunts etc. would of course be possible but i'm just leaving RPing options open by making a Millitia.

[Drachir]

Regardless if you're so set against bringing the Citizens more into view then nobody is asking you or anybody else for that matter to help I want to see this happen so I don't mind taking sole responsibility of making it so

Actually, you will need the Command on your side Just thought Id point that out. And also, if it does go ahead, it will just be too much for the citizenship to handle. The citizenship at the moment is having trouble just being a citizenship, let alone adding another aspect into it, which will only make things worse in my opinion even if it does make more people want to join.

[Kurt Alimar/Markus]

What should happen is a call to arms everytime the Main army needs extra support.  The town bells will ring and make the citizens fight.

Think of it this way back in these times the leaders didn't give a crap if you wanted to fight or not.  You'd go into the militia or face being executed. 

By the way there should be no set weaponry.  A butcher is proficient with a knife, a lumberjack with a hatchet, a farmer with a pitchfork, and a miner with a pickaxe.  Maybe even a hunter as an archer your weapon skill should relate to your profession.

Pretty much your character holds at least one weapon skill to fight with, and whatever you want after that.  You're bound to have some proficiency in some weapon if you've used it long enough. 

Just don't make it into some branch make it into something like an event just for citizens.  Witch-hunts, Mining expeditions, being invaded, helping in assaults, or just plain old hunting. 

So I'd say this would be a great idea just not as a new branch, just as a fun thing only civvies can do.

[Ben Radau]

As I said, some ideas strongly remind me of army tasks... when we use the militia to guards civilians in dangerous places, then we could close the army. In MY opinion the only times when civilians take arms is when the town is under attack. The ordinary butcher, crafter or farmer has enough to do trying to earn enough to live... he can´t spent much time for example guarding a miner to Hyloth. That´s why we have to professionals, they have the time and the fighting skills to do such jobs. But when under attack you have other troubles than plowing the field - you have to stay alive, and therefor of course add your (limited) skills to the regulars - even if your only achievement is a deadly blow you get instead of a professional, but he then can take revenge :c).

[Erik Arkay/Evinyatar]

I made it very clear in my plans that the citizenship is NOT to fight in any way (that includes self defence) unless specifically requested by the Army

The only reason I'm contemplating to allow Citizens to fight is to avoid Alts. Some people would prefer to be a citizen 80-90% of the time but on occasion they'd want to take part in a battle or special hunt. That's the only reason.

If you want to go on hunts or battles regularly, create a guardsman. Don't expect to be allowed to fight as you please if you are a citizen. Only in dire need would you be allowed to bear arms.

[Arma Renox]

Bayne (and everyone else), my idea is a little different.

My suggestion was not to let citizens fight.  But to create "hybrid" ranks within the militia. These ranks would allow any combat characters with other skills to, if they wanted, step out of the traditional ranking system and join support units which are still part of the militia.

Basicaly the idea is to create this "hybrid" group of units, with unique titles such as Engineer, that aren't able to pull rank, but are like I said respected.
These units are only allowed to fight because they're able to, combat skills would be as necessary for Engineers as they would be for any other guardsman. So, in effect they would be like any other guardsman. But there's this support aspect.

What I'm suggesting I guess is different from Bayne's idea. I do admit it would be quite chaotic to have a militia, within the citizens, within BoC. Perhaps this idea will keep fighting ability within the militia, and at the same time allow characters who aren't pure combat to enjoy RP more appropriate to their skill template.

[Erik Arkay/Evinyatar]

Militia would be on the same level as recruits and be very much expected to obey orders. They will never have a rank higher then recruit, if they want to make a career out of it, join the Army.


But I'd say we've seen 99% of the posting on this thread aimed at Citizens and how they'll be fighting and 1% about what they actually should be doing, creating non-fighting RP. Focus on that

[Althalus]

Hmmm whilst i like the idea here are my thoughts on it, most civvy chars are created to be crafters and have no combat skills.  due to this they would not fight.  i also agree with the comments about them working to hard to go ff guarding a miner etc.  however i feel there may be an alternative.

The BoC army was first formed as a militia so perhaps we open up the other side of that some and bring in the outside jobs of the militia members? either way i think the way the civvies worked before was fine and any such sweeping complex changes are both un-necessary and unwieldy with the current members of civvies.

[Erik Arkay/Evinyatar]

First of all...Citizens are NOT required to join the Militia. It is an option for those who chose it. People like Kaelieth who wants to RP a merchant but take part in battles can do so then without needing to create an alt in the Army

Secondly....What citizens? With all due respect. There are no very active citizens left since Smedly and Danichta took a break. The citizens that remain are alts (low activity) and people with lower activity then they and we would like.


And lastly, I'd like for once and for all to ban a commun misconception:

Crafters do NOT equal citizens. Let that sink in for a while.


Citizens can be crafters if they're roleplaying to be a smith, scribe, tailor or whatnot. But if the ONLY thing they're doing is just to smith/tailor then don't bother. Citizens are there to create RP activity, give everyone the feeling of a live town bustling with activity. They're not there to keep the Army stocked (although they can do both at the same time)

[Bayne]

Well I thought it would have been a good idea but it seems more people are against it than not so I guess i'll just leave the citizenship where it is (dead and non-existent) and find somewhere else for Mikael.

[Althalus]

I don't think anyone is saying that you should give up just let it die we are just saying that more of the same wont work.  We have an army we don't need another one, so think on other ideas.  the idea you have sounds like a great idea for an entire guild but it wont work in the format the guild is already in so meby think something else instead of giving up.  if the citizens are to grow they need citizen events not rehashed militia events to make the militia bigger which is all you would end up with.  The civvies would be out "training" all the time so basically just another standing army cos on one would want to do anything else.  All I'm saying is i don't think this is the answer I'm not sure what is yet I'm waiting to see what command are working on then once i know where we stand meby we can ALL make some events.

[Gregor Eason]

I like the idea.
But I think its being made to much of.

All its basically saying is that people can join in major battles if they want to. So that they can be 80/90% Citizen, 10% Militia. Opening more roleplay opportunities and such.

Other than maybe one Militia Training session a week, and fighting whenever the heat was on.. There wouldn't be anything else to become of the Militia. At least thats my standing on it.

I say go for it. See what folks make of it in practice. But for every Militia Training Session, make sure there are at least THREE Citizenship events

I could make Eason MAYOR!
MWAHAHAHAH! And still fight!
(That's the kinda concept here).